http://newgon77idcem62vqlfge3jkidjenvf6afhxwr2napk4kpp2labjbdid.onion/wiki/api.php?action=feedcontributions&feedformat=atom&user=StephenJames 2026-05-23T16:50:05Z User contributions MediaWiki 1.45.3 http://newgon77idcem62vqlfge3jkidjenvf6afhxwr2napk4kpp2labjbdid.onion/wiki/index.php?title=Kieran_McCartan&diff=6365 2010-04-10T02:33:16Z

<p>StephenJames: </p> <hr /> <div>Kieran McCartan is a Senior Lecturer in Criminology at the University of the West of England in Bristol. He has worked on issues concerning the social construction of crime, particularly sex crime.<br /> <br /> In 2004, McCartan published an article which described research into public opinions about paedophilia by surveying the views of a sample of people from Belfast and Leicester.&lt;ref&gt;McCartan, K. F. (2004). ‘HERE THERE BE MONSTERS; The public's perception of paedophiles with particular reference to Belfast and Leicester.' ''Medicine, Science and the Law'', 44, 327-342.&lt;/ref&gt; The article concluded that there was a 'moral panic' regarding paedophilia in contemporary society, but (more surprisingly) that the public were quite well informed about the subject and did not necessarily accept the most extreme solutions offered by parts of the media.<br /> <br /> McCartan has publicly commented on the difficulties of undertaking balanced research on paedophilia: &quot;...when I talked, formally and informally, to other colleagues, academic and non-academic, who were not involved in sexual abuse-orientated or criminology work, they could not understand why I would want to carry out research or try to understand paedophiles and society's reaction to them. They were often dismissive of paedophiles, seeing them as stereotypes, and offered harsh as well as unrealistic responses - much like the public.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/story.asp?storycode=408084&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ==References==<br /> <br /> {{reflist}}<br /> <br /> [[Category:Official Encyclopedia]][[Category:People]][[Category:People: Academics]][[Category:People: Critical Analysts]][[Category:People: Irish]]</div>

StephenJames http://newgon77idcem62vqlfge3jkidjenvf6afhxwr2napk4kpp2labjbdid.onion/wiki/index.php?title=Frank_Torey&diff=6278 2010-03-26T04:20:51Z

<p>StephenJames: </p> <hr /> <div>'''Frank Torey''' (1928-1996) was an author, publisher and [[boylove|boy-love]] activist. He was born near Detroit, Michigan. Torey was educated at Yale University and served in the US Air Force during the Korean War. In 1979 he moved to the [[Netherlands]] where he lived as an [[expatriates|expatriate]].<br /> <br /> == Ventures and adventures in boylove publishing ==<br /> <br /> In [[Amsterdam]], Torey published from 1979 to 1984 ''[[Pan: A Magazine about Boy-Love]]'' (changed to ''P.A.N.''-Paedo Alert News from 1982). He also edited the first anthology of boylove fiction ''Panthology'' (1981), published by John Stamford's [[Spartacus]]. ''Pan'' stopped running in 1981 but Stamford employed Torey as a general editor of [[Coltsfoot Press]], a division of [[Spartacus]], specializing in boylove fiction. When [[Coltsfoot Press]] went bankrupt in the mid 1980s, Torey founded his own publishing house, the [[Acolyte Press]], the most important publisher of boylove fiction and erotica for a decade. Torey was also an author and published many of his short stories under the pen names Peter Zupp, Scott Altman, Wallington Fuger and Jotham Lotring.<br /> <br /> Apart from publishing fiction, Torey was interested in the scholarly work on boylove which was becoming important in the 1980s. He translated many scholarly books and articles from Dutch to English including [[Theo Sandford]]'s ''The Sexual Aspects of Pedophile Relations'' (1982) and set up an additional publishing house, Global Academic Publishers, which published scholarly works such as [[Edward Brongersma]]'s two-volume ''Loving Boys'' (1987) and [[Theo Sandford]]'s ''Boys on their Contacts with Men'' (1987). In addition, he served in the editorial board of ''[[Paidika: The Journal of Paedophilia]]'' (1987-1995).<br /> <br /> == Legacy ==<br /> <br /> Torey's work has been extremely important for the boylove community. As a publisher of fiction, he <br /> created the genre of the boy-love short story as we know it. With his scholarly ventures, Torey was <br /> instrumental in bringing some pioneering works to the English audience. Finally, as an activist in ''[[Pan: A Magazine about Boy-Love|Pan]]'', he fostered the myth of the [[Netherlands]] as a country tolerant to boy-love, &quot;a myth that is becoming so terribly unstuck at the time of his death.&quot;(1)<br /> <br /> == Notes ==<br /> <br /> (1) [[D.H. Mader]], &quot;Frank Torey, boy-love activist, author and publisher, died at the end of June 1996,&quot; posted at alt.support.boy-lovers (Wed, Jul 10 1996 12:00 am).<br /> <br /> == External Links ==<br /> * [http://en.boywiki.org/wiki/Frank_Torey &quot;Frank Torey&quot;] (Original BoyWiki Article)<br /> <br /> [[Category:Official_Encyclopedia]][[Category:People]][[Category:People: Deceased]][[Category:People: Sympathetic Activists]]</div>

StephenJames http://newgon77idcem62vqlfge3jkidjenvf6afhxwr2napk4kpp2labjbdid.onion/wiki/index.php?title=Kieran_McCartan&diff=6269 2010-03-15T04:37:13Z

<p>StephenJames: </p> <hr /> <div>Kieran McCartan is a Senior Lecturer in Criminology at the University of the West of England in Bristol. He has worked on issues concerning the social construction of crime, particularly sex crime.<br /> <br /> In 2004, McCartan published an article which described research into public opinions about paedophilia by surveying the views of a sample of people from Belfast and Leicester.&lt;ref&gt;McCartan, K. F. (2004). ‘HERE THERE BE MONSTERS’; The public's perception of paedophiles with particular reference to Belfast and Leicester. Medicine, Science and the Law, 44, 327-342.&lt;/ref&gt; The article concluded that there was a 'moral panic' regarding paedophilia in contemporary society, but (more surprisingly) that the public were quite well informed about the subject and did not necessarily accept the most extreme solutions offered by parts of the media.<br /> <br /> McCartan has publicly commented on the difficulties of undertaking balanced research on paedophilia: &quot;...when I talked, formally and informally, to other colleagues, academic and non-academic, who were not involved in sexual abuse-orientated or criminology work, they could not understand why I would want to carry out research or try to understand paedophiles and society's reaction to them. They were often dismissive of paedophiles, seeing them as stereotypes, and offered harsh as well as unrealistic responses - much like the public.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/story.asp?storycode=408084&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ==References==<br /> <br /> {{reflist}}<br /> <br /> [[Category:Official Encyclopedia]][[Category:People]][[Category:People: Academics]][[Category:People: Critical Analysts]][[Category:People: Irish]]</div>

StephenJames http://newgon77idcem62vqlfge3jkidjenvf6afhxwr2napk4kpp2labjbdid.onion/wiki/index.php?title=Kieran_McCartan&diff=6268 2010-03-15T04:34:35Z

<p>StephenJames: </p> <hr /> <div>Kieran McCartan is a Senior Lecturer in Criminology at the University of the West of England in Bristol. He has worked on issues concerning the social construction of crime, particularly sex crime.<br /> <br /> In 2004, McCartan published an article which described research into public opinions about paedophilia by surveying the views of a sample of people from Belfast and Leicester.&lt;ref&gt;McCartan, K. F. (2004). ‘HERE THERE BE MONSTERS’; The public's perception of paedophiles with particular reference to Belfast and Leicester. Medicine, Science and the Law, 44, 327-342.&lt;/ref&gt; The article concluded that there was a 'moral panic' regarding paedophilia in contemporary society, but (more surprisingly) that the public were quite well informed about the subject and did not necessarily accept the most extreme solutions offered by parts of the media.<br /> <br /> McCartan has publicly commented on the difficulties of undertaking balanced research on paedophilia: &quot;...when I talked, formally and informally, to other colleagues, academic and non-academic, who were not involved in sexual abuse-orientated or criminology work, they could not understand why I would want to carry out research or try to understand paedophiles and society's reaction to them. They were often dismissive of paedophiles, seeing them as stereotypes, and offered harsh as well as unrealistic responses - much like the public.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/story.asp?storycode=408084&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ==References==<br /> <br /> {{reflist}}<br /> <br /> [[Category:Official Encyclopedia]][[Category:People]][[Category:People: Academics]][[Category:People: Critical Analysts]][[Category:People: Irish]]<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> [ARTICLE UNDER CONSTRUCTION]</div>

StephenJames http://newgon77idcem62vqlfge3jkidjenvf6afhxwr2napk4kpp2labjbdid.onion/wiki/index.php?title=Kieran_McCartan&diff=6267 2010-03-15T04:31:41Z

<p>StephenJames: </p> <hr /> <div>Kieran McCartan is a Senior Lecturer in Criminology at the University of the West of England in Bristol. He has worked on issues concerning the social construction of crime, particularly sex crime.<br /> <br /> In 2004, McCartan published an article which described research into public opinions about paedophilia by surveying the views of a sample of people from Belfast and Leicester.&lt;ref&gt;McCartan, K. F. (2004). ‘HERE THERE BE MONSTERS’; The public's perception of paedophiles with particular reference to Belfast and Leicester. Medicine, Science and the Law, 44, 327-342.&lt;/ref&gt; The article concluded that there was a 'moral panic' regarding paedophilia in contemporary society, but (more surprisingly) that the public were quite well informed about the subject and did not necessarily accept the most extreme solutions offered by parts of the media.<br /> <br /> McCartan has publicly commented on the difficulties of undertaking balanced research on paedophilia: &quot;...when I talked, formally and informally, to other colleagues, academic and non-academic, who were not involved in sexual abuse-orientated or criminology work, they could not understand why I would want to carry out research or try to understand paedophiles and society's reaction to them. They were often dismissive of paedophiles, seeing them as stereotypes, and offered harsh as well as unrealistic responses - much like the public.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/story.asp?storycode=408084&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ==References==<br /> <br /> {{reflist}}<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> [ARTICLE UNDER CONSTRUCTION]</div>

StephenJames http://newgon77idcem62vqlfge3jkidjenvf6afhxwr2napk4kpp2labjbdid.onion/wiki/index.php?title=Kieran_McCartan&diff=6261 2010-03-14T06:24:19Z

<p>StephenJames: </p> <hr /> <div>Kieran McCartan is a Senior Lecturer in Criminology at the University of the West of England in Bristol. He has worked on issues concerning the social construction of crime, particularly sex crime.<br /> <br /> In 2004, McCartan published an article which described research into public opinions about paedophilia by surveying the views of a sample of people from Belfast and Leicester.&lt;ref&gt;McCartan, K. F. (2004). ‘HERE THERE BE MONSTERS’; The public's perception of paedophiles with particular reference to Belfast and Leicester. Medicine, Science and the Law, 44, 327-342.&lt;/ref&gt; The article concluded that there was a 'moral panic' regarding paedophilia in contemporary society, but (more surprisingly) that the public were quite well informed about the subject and did not necessarily accept the most extreme solutions offered by parts of the media.<br /> <br /> McCartan has publicly commented on the difficulties of undertaking balanced research on paedophilia: &quot;...when I talked, formally and informally, to other colleagues, academic and non-academic, who were not involved in sexual abuse-orientated or criminology work, they could not understand why I would want to carry out research or try to understand paedophiles and society's reaction to them. They were often dismissive of paedophiles, seeing them as stereotypes, and offered harsh as well as unrealistic responses - much like the public.&quot;<br /> <br /> ==References==<br /> <br /> {{reflist}}<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> [ARTICLE UNDER CONSTRUCTION]</div>

StephenJames http://newgon77idcem62vqlfge3jkidjenvf6afhxwr2napk4kpp2labjbdid.onion/wiki/index.php?title=Kieran_McCartan&diff=6260 2010-03-14T06:22:07Z

<p>StephenJames: </p> <hr /> <div>Kieran McCartan is a Senior Lecturer in Criminology at the University of the West of England in Bristol. He has worked on issues concerning the social construction of crime, particularly sex crime.<br /> <br /> In 2004, McCartan published an article which described research into public opinions about paedophilia by surveying the views of a sample of people from Belfast and Leicester.&lt;ref&gt;McCartan, K. F. (2004). ‘HERE THERE BE MONSTERS’; The public's perception of paedophiles with particular reference to Belfast and Leicester. Medicine, Science and the Law, 44, 327-342.&lt;/ref&gt; The article concluded that there was a 'moral panic' regarding paedophilia in contemporary society, but (more surprisingly) that the public were quite well informed about the subject and did not necessarily accept the most extreme solutions offered by parts of the media.<br /> <br /> McCartan has publicly commented on the difficulties of undertaking balanced research on paedophilia: &quot;...when I talked, formally and informally, to other colleagues, academic and non-academic, who were not involved in sexual abuse-orientated or criminology work, they could not understand why I would want to carry out research or try to understand paedophiles and society's reaction to them. They were often dismissive of paedophiles, seeing them as stereotypes, and offered harsh as well as unrealistic responses - much like the public.&quot;<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> [ARTICLE UNDER CONSTRUCTION]</div>

StephenJames http://newgon77idcem62vqlfge3jkidjenvf6afhxwr2napk4kpp2labjbdid.onion/wiki/index.php?title=Kieran_McCartan&diff=6259 2010-03-14T06:11:07Z

<p>StephenJames: </p> <hr /> <div>Kieran McCartan is a Senior Lecturer in Criminology at the University of the West of England in Bristol. He has worked on issues concerning the social construction of crime, particularly sex crime.<br /> <br /> In 2004, McCartan published an article which described research into public opinions about paedophilia by surveying the views of a sample of people from Belfast and Leicester. The article concluded that there was a 'moral panic' regarding paedophilia in contemporary society, but (more surprisingly) that the public were quite well informed about the subject and did not necessarily accept the most extreme solutions offered by parts of the media.<br /> <br /> McCartan has publicly commented on the difficulties of undertaking balanced research on paedophilia: &quot;...when I talked, formally and informally, to other colleagues, academic and non-academic, who were not involved in sexual abuse-orientated or criminology work, they could not understand why I would want to carry out research or try to understand paedophiles and society's reaction to them. They were often dismissive of paedophiles, seeing them as stereotypes, and offered harsh as well as unrealistic responses - much like the public.&quot;<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> [ARTICLE UNDER CONSTRUCTION]</div>

StephenJames http://newgon77idcem62vqlfge3jkidjenvf6afhxwr2napk4kpp2labjbdid.onion/wiki/index.php?title=Kieran_McCartan&diff=6258 2010-03-13T03:44:04Z

<p>StephenJames: </p> <hr /> <div>Kieran McCartan is a Senior Lecturer in Criminology at the University of the West of England in Bristol. He has worked on issues concerning the social construction of crime, particularly sex crime.<br /> <br /> In 2004, McCartan published an article which described research into public opinions about paedophilia by surveying the views of a sample of people from Belfast and Leicester. The article concluded that there was a 'moral panic' regarding paedophilia in contemporary society, but (more surprisingly) that the public were quite well informed about the subject and did not necessarily accept the most extreme solutions offered by parts of the media. <br /> <br /> <br /> [ARTICLE UNDER CONSTRUCTION]</div>

StephenJames http://newgon77idcem62vqlfge3jkidjenvf6afhxwr2napk4kpp2labjbdid.onion/wiki/index.php?title=Kieran_McCartan&diff=6257 2010-03-12T06:53:38Z

<p>StephenJames: New page: Kieran McCartan is a Senior Lecturer in Criminology at the University of the West of England in Bristol. He has worked on issues concerning the social construction of crime, particularly s...</p> <hr /> <div>Kieran McCartan is a Senior Lecturer in Criminology at the University of the West of England in Bristol. He has worked on issues concerning the social construction of crime, particularly sex crime.<br /> <br /> <br /> [ARTICLE UNDER CONSTRUCTION]</div>

StephenJames http://newgon77idcem62vqlfge3jkidjenvf6afhxwr2napk4kpp2labjbdid.onion/wiki/index.php?title=Wilhelm_von_Gloeden&diff=5934 2009-10-08T04:17:17Z

<p>StephenJames: /* Life and work */</p> <hr /> <div>'''Baron Wilhelm von Gloeden''' (1856–1931) was a German photographer and [[boylover]] who worked mainly while an expatriate in Italy. He is mostly known for his pastoral [[Child Nudity|nude]] studies of Sicilian [[boy]]s.<br /> <br /> == Life and work ==<br /> <br /> Von Gloeden was a minor German aristocrat born in Mecklenburg on September 16, 1856 who, suffering from what appears to have been tuberculosis, came to Taormina in Sicily in 1876. He was wealthy and provided a considerable economic boost in this comparatively poor region of Italy, which might explain why the homosexual aspects of his life and work were generally tolerated by the locals.<br /> <br /> Not all von Gloeden's photographs were nudes. The ones that garnered the most widespread attention in Europe and overseas were usually relatively chaste, featured clothes like togas and generally downplayed their homoerotic implications. More explicit photos in which the boys were nude and which, because of eye contact or physical contact, were more sexually suggestive were traded by the Baron &quot;under the counter&quot; to close friends.<br /> <br /> In total the Baron took over 3,000 images which were widely disseminated due to new printing technologies that enabled the mass reproduction and sale of his work in postcard form.<br /> <br /> After his death on February 16, 1931, von Gloeden left most of his works to one of his models, Pancrazio Buciunì, also known as &quot;Il Moro&quot; (&quot;the Moor&quot;) for his North African looks. Il Moro had been von Gloeden's lover since the age of fourteen, when he had first joined the household of the Baron. <br /> <br /> In 1936, over 2,500 of the pictures were destroyed by Mussolini's police under the allegation that they constituted pornography. Most of the surviving images therefore come from private collections.<br /> <br /> == Further reading ==<br /> <br /> * Russell, Bruce. &quot;Wilhelm Von Pluschow and Wilhelm Von Gloeden: Two Photo Essays,&quot; Studies in Visual Communications 9, no. 2 (1983): 57-81.<br /> * Peyrefitte, Roger. Les Amours Singulieres (Paris: Jean Vigneau, 1949)<br /> * Weiermair, Peter. Wilhelm Von Gloeden: Erotic Photographs (Cologne: Taschen Verlag, 1994)<br /> * Pohlmann, Ulrich. Wilhelm von Gloeden: Taormina (München: Schirmer Mosel, 1998)<br /> * Goldman, Jason. [http://www.glbtq.com/arts/gloeden_w.html &quot;Gloeden, Wilhelm von, Baron (1856-1931)&quot;] in glbtq: An Encyclopedia of Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Transgender, and Queer Culture, ed. Claude J. Summers (Chicago: 2002) <br /> <br /> == External links ==<br /> <br /> * [http://web.archive.org/web/20070715225043/www.users.bigpond.com/richard.wykes/ Biography and gallery of his work]<br /> <br /> [[Category:Official Encyclopedia]] [[Category:Gay]][[Category:Art]][[Category:People]][[Category:People: German]][[Category:People: Deceased]][[Category:People: Adult or Minor sexually attracted to or involved with the other]][[Category:People: Artists and Poets]][[Category:History &amp; Events]][[Category:History &amp; Events: Italian]][[Category:History &amp; Events: 19th C]][[Category:History &amp; Events: 1900s]][[Category:History &amp; Events: 1910s]][[Category:History &amp; Events: 1920s]][[Category:History &amp; Events: 1930s]]</div>

StephenJames http://newgon77idcem62vqlfge3jkidjenvf6afhxwr2napk4kpp2labjbdid.onion/wiki/index.php?title=Joseph_Douc%C3%A9&diff=5906 2009-10-02T20:25:00Z

<p>StephenJames: </p> <hr /> <div>[[Image:Douce.jpg|thumb|Pasteur Joseph Doucé]]'''Joseph Doucé''' (b. 1945, Saint-Truiden, [[National Profile:Belgium|Belgium]], †1990) was a co-founder of [[ILGA]], author of ''La pédophilie en question'', leader of [[National Profile:France|French]] support groups for sexual minorities including pedophiles, and a Baptist pastor. Born to a poor, Catholic peasant family, he pursued religious and military careers in order to educate himself and integrate with French society. In 1967, he left the Catholic Church to become a Baptist pastor. From 1974 to 1976 he studied psychology at Amsterdam. In 1982, he obtained French nationality. His work in France was undertaken in the context of the [[Centre du Christ Libérateur]], founded in 1976 to provide assistance to sexual minorities.<br /> <br /> In 1988, Doucé was arrested for being on the mailing list of ''[[L'Espoir]]'', a pro-pedophile publication. He was quickly released, but the police reportedly continued to harrass him. Two years later, a pair of men identifying themselves as police officers asked Doucé to come in for questioning. His tortured body was found several months later. No one was ever convicted of his murder, though members of the Secret Service were arrested (and released). There was widespread speculation that this crime was motivated by Doucé's activism on pedophilia and other issues.<br /> <br /> ==Excerpts from ''La pédophilie en question''==<br /> <br /> :''Que ce livre, donc, aide à ouvrir un réel dialogue, conduise à une meilleur reflexion aboutissant à une meilleur comprehension d’un phénomène qui, ne pouvant d’évidence être éliminé, serait peut-être canalisé dans la mesure où la société contemporaine parvenait à un meilleur équilibre. La qualité des signature, aussi bien de pédophiles eux-mêmes que d’auteurs, au regard souvent fort différents et aux vues parfois très audacieuses sinon judicieuses, empêcheront que ces réflexions ne restent au niveau de la sensation et du parti pris toujours tendancieux. Tout cela apportera une contribution positive à une évolution des mentalités vers plus de respect des personnes et des sentiments, gage d’une société vraiment démocratique et humaniste<br /> :...<br /> <br /> :''En vue d'examiner scientifiquement la question de la révolution sexuelle et de suggérer de nouvelle politique sur ces questions pour la police, le gouvernement hollandais a nommé un comité d'experts. Le «Rapport Speijer» qui en résultat a conclu que les relations amoureuses entre adultes et jeunes de tous les sexes et de tous les âges, loin d'être nuisibles par nature, sont souvent des expériences très positives si elles sont fondées sur le désir mutuel et le choix libre des deux partenaires.''<br /> <br /> :''Ce fait avait été souligné par des personnalités hollandaises du monde juridique et scientifique qui en avaient parlé dans de nombreux articles et quelques livres. Grâce au travail de personnes telles que le docteur Edward Brongersma, le docteur Frits Bernard et de beaucoup d'autres qui les ont suivis.''<br /> :...<br /> <br /> :''Il faut savoir que les sentiments et les désirs de l'enfant se portent bel et bien parfois sur des personnes plus âgées, et c'est facile à comprendre. Dans l'intimité sexuelle avec un adulte, l'enfant ressent une protection, une sécurité et une possibilité d'abandon qu'un camarade de son âge ne peut pas lui offrir.''<br /> :[...]<br /> <br /> :''Cet adulte auquel l'enfant se donne avec tant d'intensité n'est généralement pas l'un de ses parents, parce qu'il y a souvent entre enfants et parents un fossé béant pour tout ce qui touche la sexualité. Mais il existe des exceptions. C'est ainsi, que dans ma pratique d'avocat, à côté de nombreux cas d'inceste désastreux, j'ai connu également quelques cas d'inceste père-fils qui comblait de bonheur et le père et le fils, et que le garçon, une fois devenu adulte et lui-même père de famille, continuait à estimer positivement. En voici un exemple...''<br /> :[...]<br /> <br /> :''Les relations familiales avec mon père sont exactement les mêmes que pour les autres garçon. Je n'ai jamais eu moins de respect pour lui, ni abusé de la situation pour ce que nous faisons ensemble au lit. Je trouve qu'une relation sexuelle avec un homme est une très bonne chose pour un garçon. La seule chose qu'il m'ait manqué, c'est la possibilité d'en parler avec mes camarades.''<br /> <br /> ==References==<br /> *&quot;Pasteur Joseph Doucé: 1945-1990,&quot; ''Paidika'', 7, 14-16.<br /> <br /> ==External links==<br /> *[http://andrejkoymasky.com/liv/fam/biod3/douce01.html The Memorial Hall: Joseph Doucé]<br /> *[http://www.cblf.org/paraklesis/vol2iss1/page8.html Dutch Conference On Marginal Sexualities], includes a biography of Doucé<br /> <br /> [[Category:Official Encyclopedia]]<br /> [[Category:People]]<br /> [[Category:People: French]]<br /> [[Category:People: Belgian]]<br /> [[Category:People: Sympathetic Activists]]<br /> [[Category:Law/Crime]]<br /> [[Category:Law/Crime: French]]<br /> [[Category:History &amp; Events]]<br /> [[Category:History &amp; Events: Real Crime]]</div>

StephenJames http://newgon77idcem62vqlfge3jkidjenvf6afhxwr2napk4kpp2labjbdid.onion/wiki/index.php?title=Edward_Brongersma&diff=5895 2009-09-28T03:55:03Z

<p>StephenJames: </p> <hr /> <div>&lt;div style=&quot;margin-left: 25px; float: right;&quot;&gt;__TOC__&lt;/div&gt;'''Edward Brongersma''' (born in Haarlem, the [[Netherlands]], on August 31, 1911, died in Bloemendaal/Overveen, the Netherlands on April 22, 1998) was a Dutch politician and doctor of law. He was a member of the Dutch Eerste Kamer (&quot;First Chamber&quot; or Senate) for the Labour Party for a number of years, and chairman of the Eerste Kamer's Judiciary Committee (1969-1977). He was primarily known as a defender of the rights of [[pedophilia|paedophiles]] and an advocate of more liberal legislation on public morality.<br /> <br /> ==Early Life==<br /> <br /> [[Image:Edward-Brongersma.jpg|frame|left|Brongersma.]]Brongersma was born in Haarlem as the son of an ophthalmologist. He studied law at the University of Amsterdam (1931-1935) and obtained his degree in 1935. From 1935 to 1937 he was associated with a law firm in Haarlem while working on his doctoral dissertation on the [[Portugal|Portuguese]] constitution of 1933 and Portuguese corporatism of Antonio de Oliveira Salazar, who he much admired at the time. In 1940 he received his Doctor of Law degree ''cum laude'' from the Catholic University of Nijmegen. His dissertation, on the subject of the corporative state in Portugal, was published as a book and was reprinted several times.<br /> <br /> ==Career==<br /> <br /> [[Image:Brongersma.jpg|frame|right|A younger Brongersma.]]After World War II he quickly made a career for himself as a lawyer and politician as well as a prolific writer. He worked as an attorney in Amsterdam from 1940 to 1950, and between 1946 and 1950 he was on the editorial board of the Dutch journal for the legal profession, Nederlands Juristenblad. In 1946 he was elected to the Upper House of the Dutch Parliament for the Dutch Labour Party (PvdA). His term lasted from 1946 to 1950 and later he had a second term, from 1963 to 1977. In the same period (1946-1950) he was a member for the Dutch Labour Party of the Provincial States of North Holland and served on the town council of Heemstede.<br /> <br /> His career was abruptly interrupted in 1950 when he was arrested for having sexual relations with a 17-year-old male friend. At the time, the [[age of consent]] for [[Homosexuality|homosexual]] contacts was 21, based on an article in the Dutch Civil Code (248a). Brongersma was convicted and spent 11 months in prison. This article was repealed in 1971, reducing the age of consent for homosexual contacts to 16, the same as for [[Heterosexuality|heterosexual]] contacts.<br /> <br /> He subsequently continued his career in the 1950s as a journalist and critical writer. From 1953 to 1956 he was a member of the executive committee of the Dutch Labour Party in the Utrecht region. In 1956 he was recruited for a four-year term as director of community work in Haarlem. As a result of his conviction he had been disbarred in 1950, but he was re-admitted to the Dutch Bar in 1959. He resumed his legal practice in that year and continued to work as a lawyer until 1980.<br /> <br /> From 1960 to 1967 he was a senior lecturer at the Criminological Institute of Utrecht University, where he worked very closely with Professor of Law W. Pompe. In 1963, at the request of the Dutch Labour Party, he rejoined the Upper House for a second term which would last until his resignation in 1977. From 1969 to 1977 he was chairman and spokesman for the Permanent Committee for Justice of the Upper House. For his political service, he was made a Companion in the Order of the Dutch Lion on 29 April 1975.<br /> <br /> Brongersma was primarily known for his publications and his advocacy of more liberal moral legislation, a subject in which he was keenly interested. Because of his expertise, he played a major role in 1971 as a member of the Upper House in abolishing Article 248a of the Dutch Civil Code, the same article on the basis of which he had been convicted in 1950. The age of consent for homosexual contacts was then lowered from 21 to 16. He advocated lowering the age of consent even further and allowing young people greater freedom to enter into sexual relations.<br /> <br /> In the course of his lifetime he collected a huge number of scientific and academic publications on these themes, consisting of a library and personal archives. In 1979 he donated them to a foundation bearing his name, the object of which as stated in its articles of association was &quot;promoting scientific study and publications in the field of sexual relations between adults and young people&quot;. In 1992 the objective was broadened to &quot;promoting research of the sexual-emotional health of children and young people&quot;. A great deal of commotion ensued following his death in 1998 when some of the visual material in his collections was seized. The images were deemed to be [[child pornography]]. Legislation passed in 1996 made it an offence to have such pictures &quot;on hand&quot;.<br /> <br /> After resigning from the Dutch Senate in 1977, Brongersma devoted himself completely to the objectives of his foundation. It was then that he wrote his magnum opus &quot;Loving Boys&quot; (published in two parts, 1987 and 1990), while continuing to expand his collections. After his death, his entire social-sexological collections as well as his private archives were placed in the International Institute for Social History (IISG) in Amsterdam (www.iisg.nl), this without the visual material which had been seized by the authorities. The executive board of the foundation continued its activities, changing its name in 2003 into &quot;Fund for Scientific Research of Sexuality.&lt;ref&gt;http://fondsseksualiteit.nl&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ==Work==<br /> <br /> Brongersma has a huge list of publications to his name, having authored some 1200 books and articles between 1930 and 1998 on a wide range of social and philosophical subjects such as criminal law, constitutional law, criminology, philosophy, religion, sexology, legislation on public morals and literary topics. Able to read ten West-European languages, he has written books on the Spanish Civil War, Portugal and the Portuguese, penal law and social problems. Beginning with his years at the Criminological Institute, he has written extensively in the area of sexology, especially on [[pornography]], [[ephebophilia]], [[pedophilia]] and the [[age of consent]]. His books on these subjects include: ''Das Verfehmte Geschlecht'' (in German, 1970), ''Sex en Straf'' (&quot;Sex and Punishment&quot;, 1972), ''Over pedofielen en kinderlokkers'' (&quot;On Pedophiles and Child Molesters&quot;, 1975), and his last work is his ''magnum opus'' and entitled ''Loving Boys'' (two volumes, 1988-1990).<br /> <br /> Brongersma's focus regarding pedophilia has exclusively been a same-sex issue (man-boy).&lt;ref&gt;Brongersma, E. (1990). &quot;Boy-Lovers and Their Influence on Boys: Distorted Research and Anecdotal Observations&quot;. Journal of Homosexuality 20 (1).&lt;/ref&gt;.<br /> He has admitted several times that he knew little or nothing about other issues of pedophilia (man-girl, and about female pedophiles). This stance (publicly shared by the national Dutch homosexual organisation [[COC]] at least in 1980&lt;ref&gt;[[Theo Sandfort|Sandfort, T.]] (1990). &quot;Boy Relationships: Different Concepts for a Diversity of Phenomena&quot;. Journal of Homosexuality 20.&lt;/ref&gt;) accorded with various meta-analyses of international data and studies available from Europe and North America (including Howells 1981; McConaghy 1993), which distinguished between pedophiles and 'situational offenders'. On this point, Brongersma found himself opposed to the other prominent figure of the 1970s Dutch pedophile emancipation movement, psychologist [[Frits Bernard]], who considered pedophilia non-pathological, no matter whether it was homosexual or heterosexual.<br /> <br /> ==Death==<br /> <br /> Brongersma died in 1998 by means of euthanasia. His health failed and he grew lonely as his best friends died one by one. The social changes that had started in the 1980s, in response to the [[sexual revolution]] of the 1970s, caused him to become dispirited. Initially his pleas to liberalise legislation on public morals and the rights of paedophiles had been positively received by some, both in the Netherlands and internationally. But gradually the social climate became less receptive to these ideas, even turning harsh and hostile. Following his death, discussion flared up in the Netherlands as to whether people who were weary of life should be allowed to end their lives with the aid of a physician.<br /> <br /> ==External link==<br /> <br /> *[http://members.chello.nl/o.van.buuren/The%20Age%20of%20Consent,%20Radio%20Netherlands%201993.mp3 The Age of Consent: Dream or Nightmare?] - Includes radio interview with Brongersma (in English).<br /> <br /> ==References==<br /> <br /> This article is in large part based on the archives of Dr. E. Brongersma, preserved at the International Institute of Social History (IISH), Amsterdam, The Netherlands.<br /> <br /> {{reflist}}<br /> <br /> [[Category:Official Encyclopedia]][[Category:Censorship]][[Category:Gay]][[Category:Sociological Theory]][[Category:Child Pornography]][[Category:Art]][[Category:Research]][[Category:Research on Minor Attraction]][[Category:Research on &quot;Child Molesters&quot;]][[Category:Research into effects on Children]][[Category:Research: Broader Perspectives]][[Category:People]][[Category:People: Dutch]][[Category:People: Deceased]][[Category:People: Academics]][[Category:People: Adult or Minor sexually attracted to or involved with the other]][[Category:People: Sympathetic Activists]][[Category:People: Popular Authors]][[Category:History &amp; Events: Personal Scandals]] [[Category:Law/Crime]][[Category:Law/Crime: Dutch]][[Category:History &amp; Events]] [[Category:History &amp; Events: Real Crime]][[Category:History &amp; Events: Dutch]][[Category:History &amp; Events: 1950s]][[Category:History &amp; Events: 1970s]][[Category:History &amp; Events: 1980s]]</div>

StephenJames http://newgon77idcem62vqlfge3jkidjenvf6afhxwr2napk4kpp2labjbdid.onion/wiki/index.php?title=Allen_Ginsberg&diff=5878 2009-09-23T05:04:27Z

<p>StephenJames: Clearer wording?</p> <hr /> <div>__NOTOC__'''Irwin Allen Ginsberg''' (June 3, 1926 – April 5, 1997) was a Beat-generation poet and political activist. He was an advocate of intergenerational sex.<br /> <br /> ==Biography==<br /> <br /> [[Image:Ginsberg.jpg|thumb|Allen Ginsberg]]Ginsberg was born in Newark, New Jersey, on 3 June, 1926 and grew up in nearby Paterson. He made a name for himself in 1956 with the release of ''Howl and Other Poems'' which was deemed obscene by local authorities. He was present at all major civil rights events and protests in the 1960's, except the [[Stonewall]] riots since they were spontaneous.<br /> <br /> Between 1994 and his death on 5 April, 1997, in New York, much of Ginsberg's political energy was exerted against the gay community to allow NAMBLA to march in annual pride parades, citing that [[boylove|boylover]]s today were being treated much like [[homosexuality|homosexual]]s in general while he was growing up.<br /> <br /> ==Advocacy of intergenerational sex==<br /> <br /> He is argued to be one of the most well-known people to have spoken positively on intergenerational sex, often reflecting on his own experiences as a [[loved boy]] and espousing a love for boys himself as an adult. In 1994, Ginsberg rushed to the defense of the [[North American Man/Boy Love Association]] when the [[International Lesbian and Gay Association]] attempted to expel decade-old ties to them in a political move to gain consultative status in the United Nations. He wrote in the ''[[NAMBLA Bulletin]]'' and said:<br /> <br /> :&quot;Attacks on NAMBLA stink of politics, witchhunting for profit, humorlessness, vanity, anger and ignorance [...] I'm a member of NAMBLA because I love boys too -- everybody does, who has a little humanity.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;Allen Ginsberg, &quot;Thoughts on NAMBLA,&quot; ''Deliberate Prose: Selected Essays 1952-1995'' (170). Harper Perennial. ISBN 9780060930813&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> In a 1974 interview with Allen Young, Ginsberg said:<br /> <br /> :&quot;...it's very old and very charming for older and younger people to make it-which you realize as you get old too-and nothing to be ashamed of, defensive about, but something to be encouraged; a healthy relationship, not a sick neurotic dependency. <br /> <br /> :The main thing is communication. Older people have ken, experience, history, memory, information, data, power, money and also worldly technology. Younger people have intelligence, enthusiasm, sexuality, energy, vitality, open mind, athletic activity-all the characteristics and sweet, dewy knowledges of youth; and both profit from the reciprocal exchange. It becomes more than a sexual relationship; it becomes an exchange of strength, an exchange of gifts, an exchange of accomplishments, an exchange of nature-bounties. Older people gain vigor, refreshment, vitality, energy, hopefulness, and cheerfulness from the attentions of the young; and the younger people gain gossip, experience, advice, aid, comfort, wisdom, knowledge, and teaching from their relation with the old. So as in other relationships, the combination of old and young is functionally useful. It's far from sexist, in the sense that the interest of the younger person is not totally sexual; it's more in the relationship and the wisdom to be gained. <br /> <br /> :In Edward Carpenter's and Whitman's time the older person made love to the younger person, blew the younger person, and there was the absorption of the younger person's electric, vital magnetism (according to charming, theosophical, nineteenth century theory). And it's something that somebody older like myself does experience as a natural fact. When you sleep with somebody younger you do gain a little vitality of breadth and bounce....&quot;&lt;ref&gt;Allen Ginsberg, ''Gay Sunshine Interview with Allen Young''. Grey Fox Press&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> Among mainstream enthusiasts of Allen Ginsberg and his poetry, his connection to NAMBLA and romanticism with [[pederasty]] are often ignored or denied. Today, some readers of Allen Ginsberg take the position that Ginsberg did not support the objectives of [[NAMBLA]] and only defended it as a matter of [[free speech]]. Ginsberg himself said that he doesn't like underage boys in one of his last interviews for the ''New York Times''.&lt;ref&gt;Dinitia Smith, &quot;[http://www.writing.upenn.edu/~afilreis/88/ginsberg-nyt.html How Allen Ginsberg Thinks His Thoughts],&quot; ''New York Times'', October 8, 1996.&lt;/ref&gt;, but these sound like the words of a man who had perhaps been to some extent worn down by the decade-long attacks on him regarding his connection to NAMBLA. In fact much of his poetry, which was influenced by [[Walt Whitman]] reveals that, like Whitman, he loved young men and teenage boys.&lt;ref&gt;[[Camille Paglia]], &quot;[http://www.salon.com/april97/columnists/paglia970415.html The purity of Allen Ginsberg's boy-love],&quot; ''Salon.com'', April 15, 1997.&lt;/ref&gt; This reputed him as the &quot;poet who loved boys&quot;. As Raymond-Jean Frontain observed:<br /> <br /> :&quot;Although both Shumacher and Barry Miles (Ginsberg's initial biographer) frankly discuss Ginsberg's sexual politics, neither refers to his involvement with the controversial North American Man/Boy Love Association [...] I reread ''Collected Poems'' and Ginsberg's two subsequent collections, surprised by the pattern of references to anal intercourse and to [[pederasty]] that emerged&quot;.&lt;ref&gt;Raymond-Jean Frontain, &quot;The Works of Allen Ginsberg,&quot; ''[[Journal of Homosexuality]]'' 34 (1997): 109.&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> == References ==<br /> <br /> {{reflist}}<br /> <br /> ==External Links==<br /> <br /> *[http://en.boywiki.org/wiki/Allen_Ginsberg &quot;Allen Ginsberg&quot;] (Original BoyWiki Article)<br /> <br /> [[Category:Official_Encyclopedia]][[Category:Censorship]][[Category:Gay]][[Category:Art]][[Category:People]][[Category:People: American]][[Category:People: Deceased]][[Category:People: Adult or Minor sexually attracted to or involved with the other]][[Category:People: Sympathetic Activists]][[Category:People: Artists and Poets]]</div>

StephenJames http://newgon77idcem62vqlfge3jkidjenvf6afhxwr2napk4kpp2labjbdid.onion/wiki/index.php?title=Allen_Ginsberg&diff=5877 2009-09-23T04:56:48Z

<p>StephenJames: /* Advocacy of intergenerational sex */</p> <hr /> <div>__NOTOC__'''Irwin Allen Ginsberg''' (June 3, 1926 – April 5, 1997) was a Beat-generation poet and political activist. He was an advocate of intergenerational sex.<br /> <br /> ==Biography==<br /> <br /> [[Image:Ginsberg.jpg|thumb|Allen Ginsberg]]Ginsberg was born in Newark, New Jersey, on 3 June, 1926 and grew up in nearby Paterson. He made a name for himself in 1956 with the release of ''Howl and Other Poems'' which was deemed obscene by local authorities. He was present at all major civil rights events and protests in the 1960's, except the [[Stonewall]] riots since they were spontaneous.<br /> <br /> Between 1994 and his death on 5 April, 1997, in New York, much of Ginsberg's political energy was exerted against the gay community to allow NAMBLA to march in annual pride parades, citing that [[boylove|boylover]]s today were being treated much like [[homosexuality|homosexual]]s in general while he was growing up.<br /> <br /> ==Advocacy of intergenerational sex==<br /> <br /> He is argued to be one of the most well-known people to have spoken positively on intergenerational sex, often reflecting on his own experiences as a [[loved boy]] and espousing a love for boys himself as an adult. In 1994, Ginsberg rushed to the defense of the [[North American Man/Boy Love Association]] when the [[International Lesbian and Gay Association]] attempted to expel decade-old ties to them in a political move to gain consultative status in the United Nations. He wrote in the ''[[NAMBLA Bulletin]]'' and said:<br /> <br /> :&quot;Attacks on NAMBLA stink of politics, witchhunting for profit, humorlessness, vanity, anger and ignorance [...] I'm a member of NAMBLA because I love boys too -- everybody does, who has a little humanity.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;Allen Ginsberg, &quot;Thoughts on NAMBLA,&quot; ''Deliberate Prose: Selected Essays 1952-1995'' (170). Harper Perennial. ISBN 9780060930813&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> In a 1974 interview with Allen Young, Ginsberg said:<br /> <br /> :&quot;...it's very old and very charming for older and younger people to make it-which you realize as you get old too-and nothing to be ashamed of, defensive about, but something to be encouraged; a healthy relationship, not a sick neurotic dependency. <br /> <br /> :The main thing is communication. Older people have ken, experience, history, memory, information, data, power, money and also worldly technology. Younger people have intelligence, enthusiasm, sexuality, energy, vitality, open mind, athletic activity-all the characteristics and sweet, dewy knowledges of youth; and both profit from the reciprocal exchange. It becomes more than a sexual relationship; it becomes an exchange of strength, an exchange of gifts, an exchange of accomplishments, an exchange of nature-bounties. Older people gain vigor, refreshment, vitality, energy, hopefulness, and cheerfulness from the attentions of the young; and the younger people gain gossip, experience, advice, aid, comfort, wisdom, knowledge, and teaching from their relation with the old. So as in other relationships, the combination of old and young is functionally useful. It's far from sexist, in the sense that the interest of the younger person is not totally sexual; it's more in the relationship and the wisdom to be gained. <br /> <br /> :In Edward Carpenter's and Whitman's time the older person made love to the younger person, blew the younger person, and there was the absorption of the younger person's electric, vital magnetism (according to charming, theosophical, nineteenth century theory). And it's something that somebody older like myself does experience as a natural fact. When you sleep with somebody younger you do gain a little vitality of breadth and bounce....&quot;&lt;ref&gt;Allen Ginsberg, ''Gay Sunshine Interview with Allen Young''. Grey Fox Press&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> Among mainstream enthusiasts of Allen Ginsberg and his poetry, his connection to NAMBLA and romanticism with [[pederasty]] are often ignored or denied. Today, some readers of Allen Ginsberg take the position that Ginsberg did not support the objectives of [[NAMBLA]] and only defended it as a matter of [[free speech]]. Ginsberg himself said that he doesn't like underage boys in one of his last interviews for the ''New York Times''.&lt;ref&gt;Dinitia Smith, &quot;[http://www.writing.upenn.edu/~afilreis/88/ginsberg-nyt.html How Allen Ginsberg Thinks His Thoughts],&quot; ''New York Times'', October 8, 1996.&lt;/ref&gt; This sounds, however, as an apology to the decade long attacks on him regarding his connection to NAMBLA. In fact much of his poetry, which was influenced by [[Walt Whitman]] reveals that, like Whitman, he loved young men and teenage boys.&lt;ref&gt;[[Camille Paglia]], &quot;[http://www.salon.com/april97/columnists/paglia970415.html The purity of Allen Ginsberg's boy-love],&quot; ''Salon.com'', April 15, 1997.&lt;/ref&gt; This reputed him as the &quot;poet who loved boys&quot;. As Raymond-Jean Frontain observed:<br /> <br /> :&quot;Although both Shumacher and Barry Miles (Ginsberg's initial biographer) frankly discuss Ginsberg's sexual politics, neither refers to his involvement with the controversial North American Man/Boy Love Association [...] I reread ''Collected Poems'' and Ginsberg's two subsequent collections, surprised by the pattern of references to anal intercourse and to [[pederasty]] that emerged&quot;.&lt;ref&gt;Raymond-Jean Frontain, &quot;The Works of Allen Ginsberg,&quot; ''[[Journal of Homosexuality]]'' 34 (1997): 109.&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> == References ==<br /> <br /> {{reflist}}<br /> <br /> ==External Links==<br /> <br /> *[http://en.boywiki.org/wiki/Allen_Ginsberg &quot;Allen Ginsberg&quot;] (Original BoyWiki Article)<br /> <br /> [[Category:Official_Encyclopedia]][[Category:Censorship]][[Category:Gay]][[Category:Art]][[Category:People]][[Category:People: American]][[Category:People: Deceased]][[Category:People: Adult or Minor sexually attracted to or involved with the other]][[Category:People: Sympathetic Activists]][[Category:People: Artists and Poets]]</div>

StephenJames http://newgon77idcem62vqlfge3jkidjenvf6afhxwr2napk4kpp2labjbdid.onion/wiki/index.php?title=Testimony:_Adult_Male_with_Minor_Male&diff=5876 2009-09-23T04:22:21Z

<p>StephenJames: </p> <hr /> <div>{{Template:A&amp;T}}<br /> *'''[http://dir.salon.com/story/mwt/feature/2002/07/22/coming_of_age/ Minor report] by David Tuller in Salon.com, July 22, 2002.'''<br /> **An aircraft maintenance worker describes his first experience at thirteen with a man of about 30 who had hired him to do yard work. After inviting him inside and showing him pictures of men wrestling, the man “started rubbing my crotch, and I was both nervous and really excited by it.” He went on to seek out other significantly older men. “I never felt used. I really wanted it, and except for the first time I always felt like the aggressor.” <br /> **Noted gay novelist Edmund White talks about picking up men at Chicago beaches and public restrooms from the age of 13 or 14. “I was very oversexed, absolutely driven wild by desire. ... The first one was a handsome architect, who actually had children older than me. I was absolutely fascinated by him, and I seduced him. I followed him to his car, walked right up to him and started talking to him. My mother was away and I said, ‘Come back to my apartment.’ And it was terrific.” <br /> ** In an essay about sex between adolescents and adults, David Tuller relates his own desire as a 15-year-old &quot;tormented homosexual wannabe.&quot; Upon seeing the movie Summer of '42, in which a young widow &quot;pulls Hermie into her arms and, in her grief, into her bed,&quot; he says, &quot;I cried while I watched, ... because I so yearned for the tender moments that Hermie found.&quot; <br /> **A gay health care professional in his 50s discusses how the relationship he pursued with a family friend in his early 20s helped him learn at the age of fifteen that men could care for each other. &quot;It was clear that it certainly felt good to both of us. ... In some way it was a real lifesaver, because it made me feel that love and affection and closeness and sex would be possible in my life. ... when we were together, it was like a little oasis where we could be ourselves.&quot; <br /> ** A businessman in Denver recounts his two-year relationship, from age fifteen, with his 29-year-old boss at the restaurant where he worked. &quot;It was frightening and invigorating and I felt clumsy and awkward. But he was playful and fun and very gentle. I never felt coerced. As foreign as it was to me I was very open to it. Afterwards, I felt good, like I'd experienced something I'd wanted to for a long time.&quot; Speaking of how it affected his life at the time, he says, &quot;I wasn't an awkward, out-of-place kid anymore. I felt appreciated for being gay, instead of being an outcast and made fun of. Suddenly I had this new self-confidence. I didn't have to hate myself for being gay.&quot; <br /> *'''[http://www.boychat.org/messages/932440.htm A long and varied career by Ambar] on BoyChat, July 2005.'''<br /> *:A man recounts his earliest sexual experiences, including with his best friend’s father at eight years old: “He became my second very, very, very best friend and so began a wonderful, loving relationship. I still adore that man :-)” <br /> *'''[http://newgon.com/CPP/HFP-072.htm Letter from John] in HFP Mailbag and [http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/13023005/ Sexual Abuse from a Victim] by John Tate, December 7, 2004.'''<br /> *:A 17-year-old reports on the anguish in his life stemming from sexual activity with his grandfather from age seven and attributes the worst aspects to society’s attitudes about it: “I think if this sort of thing was tolerated I would not have felt so fucking alienated, so hated, as a child, I would have not been an outcast.” <br /> *'''[http://www.boychat.org/messages/932397.htm count me IN !!! :))] by siao on BoyChat, July 2005. '''<br /> *:A man recounts his first experience of sex with an adult at seven years old: “suddenly fun was &quot;in&quot; … gosh, what was that twirling feeling which went all thru me ???” He also speaks of such encounters with many other men, saying, “NOT A SINGLE ONE EVER ABUSED ME ! I was free to say 'YES!!!!' and also knew how to say 'no' if there were ever anything I might not want.” <br /> *'''[http://www.bostonmagazine.com/articles/boy_crazy/ Boy Crazy] in Boston Magazine, May 2001'''<br /> **Famous poet Allen Ginsberg commented on the 1977 pedophilia scandal in Revere, Massachusetts, &quot;I had sex when I was 8 with a man in the back of my grandfather’s candy store in Revere, and I turned out okay.&quot; <br /> **Best-selling Canadian author James Dubro was 14 in 1961 when he started having sex with a 22-year-old college student who remains his friend 40 years later. <br /> *'''[http://newgon.com/CPP/BC-146796.htm My Story: A story of a boy] by Elf on BoyChat, October 1998.'''<br /> *:A man in his mid-20s tells his story. When he was nine or ten years old, he responded willingly to the seduction of a 16- or 17-year-old neighbor boy. They had a passionate love affair for over a year until they were discovered and his father beat him savagely. The older boy’s family disappeared from town. This man wrote of that affair as the best thing that ever happened to him and attributed his deep problems at the time of writing to the brutal way it was torn away from him. <br /> *'''&quot;[http://newgon.com/CPP/Spike/xaboutme.htm Spike]&quot; on his website'''<br /> *:A 15-year-old boy writes about his adult lover: “When I was 10, I found myself a mentor, a wonderful old man that needed me as much as I needed him. … J has been the best thing that could ever have happened to me. Everything I am today I owe to J. He and Mom are both educated people who believe that I must prepare myself for adulthood by learning how to learn, how to think for myself, and how to believe in myself … Mom sees the results of my association with J, and she could not be more pleased.” <br /> *'''[http://newgon.com/CPP/Hoby-mod.htm Hoby] on his website'''<br /> *:A boy proclaims his interest in adult men and says, “You should be able to love whoever you want when you want and as long as you both happy it dont matter what anyone else thinks.” <br /> *'''''[http://newgon.com/CPP/Arlekin/complain-mod.htm My Complaints]'' by David Alejandro, December 1996, on his website.'''<br /> *:A 13-year-old boy makes an impassioned plea for sexual freedom: “I want to love and be loved by whom I want. For the last two years I have an older friend. I am not gay, I like girls. He doesn’t, but we understand each other very well. It is nobody’s business what we do or don’t do. … Stop protecting me, please!” (Note: His site history page indicated that he was 13 when he posted this page and 15½ in June 1999. The English index pages said that he lived in the “Land of the Incas.”)<br /> *'''[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voor_een_verloren_soldaat Voor Een Verloren Soldaat] (For A Lost Soldier), autobiographical novel by Rudi van Dantzig, 1986 and 1992 movie made from it'''<br /> *:Acclaimed ballet dancer and choreographer Rudi van Dantzig tells the story of his brief romance at twelve with a Canadian soldier at the end of World War II. <br /> *'''[http://newgon.com/CPP/Stefan/index.htm Stefan] on his web page'''<br /> *:A 12-year-old in Holland says, “I will tell you about my BEST friend. He’s 28 and works at home. I love him the most in the world and he loves me. He says I’m the cutest boy in the world.” <br /> *'''[http://www.scottohara.com/obit.htm Scott O'Hara], quoted in his obituary at the Spirit of Stonewall Press Conference, New York City, June 24, 1994.'''<br /> *:The publisher of Steam magazine says, “When I was 12 and 13 years old I would have joined NAMBLA in a minute, because I knew I was gay and I wanted to go out and get laid, not just read The Gay Mystique all my life; I needed personal contact.” <br /> *'''Ik Wilde Meer! (“[http://www.martijn.org/info/Martijn/martijn02.pdf I Want More!]”) in Martijn (PDF, 6 Mb), December 1980, page 16-18, in Dutch.'''<br /> *:A married man reports on his 6-year-long relationship with a man who showed him erotic art and masturbated him. The relationship later turned platonic and the younger man was at the older’s deathbed 37 years later. <br /> *'''[http://www.boylover.net/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/10/194.html tribute to frank] by mick15 on BoyLover.net, December 7, 2005.'''<br /> *:A teenaged boy describes his loving, sexual relationship with his soccer mentor, who had recently died. <br /> *'''I want to speak out!!!!!!!! by “15 yr old boy” on BoyChat, September 2000.'''<br /> *:A 15-year-old boy writes about his adult lover: “He is the best thing that has ever happened to me. … I wish this world would just open its eyes and see that relationships like this are healthy and good for boys my age—but yes only if the boy wants the relationship.” <br /> *'''[http://newgon.com/CPP/Adam-mod.htm There is Magic Out There] by Joshua Adam on his website.'''<br /> *:A 13-year-old in the 10th grade writes about the emotional support he gets from his older friend, Angel, who is helping him overcome the hatred cast upon him by his family and school for liking other boys. Angel and Adam have never met in person and do not plan to do so. Their relationship is entirely nonsexual, although it is definitely one of love and mentorship.<br /> *'''Author [http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1588180395 Kirk Read]'''<br /> *: In his 2001 book, How I Learned to Snap, Kirk Read tells of his sexual experiences with adults starting at age 13, which he says saved his life. &quot;Intergenerational sex saved my life&quot;, &quot;American culture's only frame of reference for sex with minors is abuse. I don't deny that abuse occurs, but this should be addressed on a case-by-case basis. A blanket approach that criminalizes all sex between adults and minors undermines the fact that for many gay teenagers, sex with an adult can be a beautiful, life-changing experience. It was for me&quot;, &quot;I sought out sex with older men time and time again as a teenager. I had fumbling sexual encounters with other kids as a preadolescent, but they always left me unsatisfied. None of us knew what we were doing, and our shame and fear overwhelmed any joy of discovery&quot; (pp.57-59) [http://www.nambla.org/snap.htm Reviewed] by NAMbLA.<br /> <br /> *'''[http://newgon.com/CPP/Shane-mod.htm Shane] on his website'''<br /> *:A 14-year-old gay boy in Australia says, “I have one really good adult friend that knows about my sexuality, … Steve has never tried anything sexual with me, although I often wish he would.” <br /> *'''[http://www.boychat.org/messages/932399.htm Under My House . Tent Sleeping . Neighbors Bedroom] by Linca on BoyChat, July 2005. '''<br /> *:A man recounts his first experiences of sex, including with an adult neighbor at 14: “[He] did with me … what he had been wanting to do with me since I was 8 years old. We are friends to this day.” <br /> *'''Two posts by hyacinth on BoyChat: [http://newgon.com/CPP/BC-663921.htm May 2002] [1] and [http://www.boychat.org/messages/932570.htm July 2005] [2]'''<br /> *:A man describes his childhood sexual experiences with adults. The first was anal sex with a benedictine monk at 14 years old: “I was't stupid, at 14 I knew my way around … He was very nice and very gentle, and I liked him alot.” [1] Next was a relationship that lasted for a year and a half with a man and his two sons. [2] <br /> *'''[http://newgon.com/CPP/Benjamin-LettersOfBoy.htm Letters of a Loving Boy--Excerpted letters and diaries of boys], edited by Jarod Benjamin, 1997.'''<br /> *:A 14-year-old boy wrote a series of love letters, unsuccessfully courting an adult friend for a more intimate relationship. <br /> *'''[http://newgon.com/CPP/Mogenic-LikeGreece.htm Just Like Greece? — Gay Teen Dates Septuagenarian], an interview of “:John ”: by Brandon K. Thorp in ''Mogenic'', June 2006.'''<br /> *:A 22-year-old man talks about the 67-year-old man he met at the museum where they were both volunteering when he was 13. A friendship emerged based on unusually common interests for such a pair. The relationship evolved into mentoring and eventually romance, which became sexual two years later. They remained occasionally intimate for five years while the teenager also began to explore relationships with his age peers. Looking back on the man’s death when he was 20, he says, “He enhanced the quality of my youth, and his influence will likely enhance the quality of my entire adult life. And I enhanced his old age. We both got something out of it.” <br /> *'''[http://newgon.com/CPP/Aaron/index.htm Aaron], on his website'''<br /> *:A 15-year-old boy talks about his adult lover on his website. <br /> *'''[http://www.nambla.org/boys.htm Boys Speak Out on Man/Boy Love], NAMBLA, 1981.'''<br /> *:NAMBLA published a book with first-person accounts of 29 boys about their relationships with older men. Titles include ''The Best Thing That Ever Happened to Me'' by Greg, 16, ''It Shouldn’t Be a Crime to Make Love'' by Bryan, 12, ''If It Wasn’t for Mark I’d Probably Be Dead Today'' by Carl, 14, ''I Need My Lovers'' by Tyrone, 16, and ''It Was Me Who Started It'' by Frank, 15. <br /> *'''The perspective of a loving boy in [http://newgon.com/CPP/Benjamin-BoysAndBoylovers.htm On Boys and Boylovers] by Jarod Benjamin, 1997.'''<br /> *:Jarod Benjamin’s 1997 study of male-male pedophilia includes a section that reports on pedophile relationships from the point of view of boys in them. Reference is also made to 620 quotes of boys in Edward Brongersma’s [http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1557410038 Loving Boys].<br /> *'''[http://www.thinkandask.com/2006/042106-john.html Baseball, Boys, One Man on Illegal Love]'''<br /> *:A boy happily participates in a sexual and emotional relationship with an older man beginning at age 12. &quot;Jesse is less than half John's age and turned 15-years-old in April, but the boy is not his son. Jesse &quot;is my lover,&quot; John said, &quot;but the feelings are mutual, this is a consensual relationship.&quot; John met Jesse (not his real name) when the boy was homeless three years ago. [...] In Jesse's own words, &quot;John knows me, he's here inside my head already, I mean all along. He is my dad, boyfriend, best friend, brother, all in one. He's great,&quot; he grins as he chats with a friend on the office computer. [...] &quot;I brought it up and told him how I felt and offered to take care of him. That is when he said he was in love with me and never wanted to leave,&quot; John said.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.petertatchell.net/age%20of%20consent/14%20gay%20boyfriend.htm Lee]'''<br /> *:Gay sex at 8 / various illegal / all consenting &quot;Lee is 14. He's been having sex with boys since the age of eight, and with men since he was 12. Lee has a serious problem. He wants a steady relationship and has been going out recently with a guy in his mid-twenties, who he met at the hairdressers. But in the eyes of the law, Lee's partner is a paedophile and Lee is a victim of child abuse. That's not, however, the way Lee sees it: &quot;I want to have a boyfriend. It's my choice. No one's abusing me. Why should we be treated like criminals?&quot;. This is a live issue for Lee because he prefers relationships with older guys. &quot;I don't get on with people my own age&quot;, says Lee. &quot;They're too immature. I like men in their 20s or early 30s. They are more experienced and serious. With them, you can get into a closer relationship than with a teenager&quot;.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://danpedo.sexualpolitik.se/english/davidgb.php#1 David]'''<br /> *:Gay sex at 13 with a man in his mid-30s. &quot;[O]ne day he started telling me about all the boys he'd had, and.., we finally ended up in the next room. We had a good time. I actually thought it was a little funny; at one point I even started to laugh. I don't know why -- I just had this weird need to laugh. [...] It was all so new. It was exciting. [...] (Interviewer: It [your relationship] all sounds very rosy...) Yes, it's really, really great.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/vigilance-vital-to-keeping-vile-paedophiles-at-bay-57221.html Unnamed 13/14-year-old boy]'''<br /> *:Claims that he consented, but others saw it very differently! [username: as@df.com, p/w: asdf] &quot;The young lad in question, who was 13 when his contact with these paedophiles began, claims that the sexual relationships he had with them were all consensual. In other words, he is stating that he was not raped, and that, to his mind at least, there was no abuse.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.logicalreality.com/openbb/read.php?TID=1785&amp;page=4 Pat Kelly]'''<br /> *:Aged 5, he helped a boy, 17, masturbate; was grateful for his invitation (Forum down. Pat was the webmaster behind the rational humanist website LogicalReality.com and the associated forums. He claims to have enjoyed hiding in a garage and masturbating the other boy, much like a schoolboy would enjoy being allowed into the staffroom - the world of adults, with which he was so fascinated).<br /> *'''[http://www.martijn.org/info/OK41_EN_1.html Andre and Dennis]'''<br /> *:Educationalist on his relationship with a primary schoolboy. &quot;Actually, it really lasted quite a while before the sexual side of our relationship started to take shape; I did not dare begin with this so soon. André does feel a bit guilty towards Dennis' mother that he never brought up the sexuality. He asks himself if she may not have figured out after all, because every now and then she has made remarks that could point to that. She does know that Dennis and André have a very physical contact with each other and kiss each other. Basically, he would like to talk about it, but, understandably, this is not easy. On being asked, Dennis had a clear opinion: 'She does not need to know!'&quot;<br /> *'''&quot;[http://www.martijn.org/page.php?id=1171983 11-year-old faggot]&quot;'''<br /> *:Talks to NAMbLA. Boys speak out. Order: Nambla, P. O. Box 174, Midtown Sta. New York, NY10018 &quot;My first statement is that I want to dispel the image that a child is an ''innocent little puppy dog''. Children have plenty of knowledge about life, the universe and everything. But adults tend not to listen to their children. This ''innocent puppy'' syndrome represses the child's social, sexual, political, economical, and emotional desires. Children are not taken seriously and are expected to conform to a society in which they can't question its validity. This has got to stop! [...] A child is a sexual being. Therefore, children should have the right to explore any aspect of sexuality they desire to engage in. Why do parents, politicians, and police (the 3 p's) feed guilt into children that are sexually active? [...] Many people have been destroyed because of intergenerational relationships, people who could offer the world a lot if they had just not been persecuted for being different. Burning witches is a pastime which is just regaining popularity in the States.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.p-loog.info/English/interview_3_b/johnny.htm Johnny]'''<br /> *:Maternally approved Gay sex at 12 &quot;(Interviewer: What are the negative aspects of your contact with Ferdinand?) Tss ... There aren't any. [...except] to explain that to my family, or to keep his orientation hidden from them.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.p-loog.info/English/interview_3_b/peter.htm Peter]'''<br /> *:Happy with pedophile contacts from an early age (around ten) &quot;(Interviewer: What are the negative aspects of your contact with Ferdinand?) I don't have any.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.p-loog.info/English/interview_3_b/stephan.htm Stephan]'''<br /> *:Descriptive account of yet another acceptable relationship, beginning at age 11. &quot;Ferdinand really picked me up in a terrific way. I have learned lots from him, I've had many experiences and I've done lots of things with Ferdinand. I have learned something about human nature from Ferdinand. And other important things in society, responsibility, how to go about with money. I still don't do that very well, you know, it just didn't stick with me. But, you know, that sort of thing. The important things in life. Before Ferdinand I didn't know about any of these things and through him I have discovered them. Also, I always say, &quot;I didn't have a childhood until I met Ferdinand. Then I received my childhood.&quot; And that is really how it was because before that I had so many problems. [...] (Interviewer: What are the negative aspects of your contact with Ferdinand?) Not one! That is very easy to say. Not one.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://web.archive.org/web/20040823204921/http://www.logicalreality.com/openbb/read.php?TID=164 Pluto]'''<br /> *:Emotional need for sex with a boy, at 56, after enjoying the reverse long ago. Pluto's early childhood experience involved showering with a grown man, and enjoying sexual contact. At the time of the act, it would have most certainly been disapproved of, but there was no moral panic in place to rob him of his self-worth. &quot;Yes, I did have sex with an adult when I was very young--10, 11, 12 years old--and I treasure and cherish the memories... [...] I was not hurt in any way by it. i only wish there had been more times when he fooled around with me.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.ipce.info/host/sandfort_87/Appendix.htm Thijs and Joop]''' (in [[Theo Sandfort]]'s ''Boys on their contacts with men'')<br /> *:Befriended by a boylover at nine, and enjoying sex &quot;(Interviewer: What do you find the unpleasant aspects of sex with Joop?) There aren't any. I don't know of any, at least. [...] (Interviewer: Can you say who starts it, when you have sex?) Either of us. Sometimes me, yeah, mostly me. But he, too, real often. [...] (Interviewer: What do you think your mother would feel about your having sex with Joop?) I guess she'd think it was dirty. She'd think a man doing that with a child wasn't normal, that you just shouldn't do it. That's what she'd say. (Interviewer: And how do you feel about her thinking that way?) Rotten stupid! Although I wouldn't tell her it was rotten stupid. I mean, what business is it of hers? It's my business what I do. [...] (Interviewer: How do you feel about your having sex with Joop?) It's just really nice. (Interviewer: It's no problem for you?) It's just like a man going to bed with a woman--I think it's exactly the same: nice. And the feelings and so on they have, I have too.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.freewebtown.com/newsstand/archive/0316.html Unnamed Indian Boy]'''<br /> *:Newspaper article about M8 + M19 sex and the victim syndrome &quot;Once I was about 15, I grew familiar with terms like paedophilia and child abuse and started to realise what I had been through. This too had a downside. I found myself in 'the victim syndrome'. I started using this incident as an excuse to endear myself to people and constantly looked at myself as victimised in relationships and emotional circumstances. This persists even today but I try to rid myself of this misery.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showpost.php?p=3730495&amp;postcount=250 Sateryn on IIDB]'''<br /> *:Got a 'kick' out of illegal sex play with adults, at five, but disliked the following investigation &quot;you know the most traumatic part about being molested as a child? sitting in a room with your parents and a therapist staring at you, forcing you to take naked cloth dolls and use them to put on a puppet show to show the adults what happened to you. the physical act of it? the molestation itself? hell, it was interesting... i was 5, it was something new, and i lucked out in that it wasn't violent, just people getting their rocks off - and quite frankly i got a kick out of it, at the time.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?p=3924233#post3924233 IIDB]'''<br /> *:Another member comments about their indifference, and expands later on. &quot;I remember one incident when I was 9 or so and my uncles were 20 and 21. They brought me and a cousin who's about my age to their room and we engaged in oral sex. It was a one-time thing, but I didn't repress the memory, felt ashamed by it, or otherwise damaged by it. We didn't talk about it though, and it doesn't come to mind often. Is that counted as abuse? I had no strong feelings about it then or now. [...] I don't claim that it didn't affect me then, but it affected me in the way sexual activities affect us at that age - that of guilt of doing something I was taught is wrong or shameful. It's the same feeling I got then after masturbation and sexual experimentation with my friends, male and female.&quot;<br /> *'''[https://www.boychat.org/messages/967788.htm Hangtwenty]'''<br /> *:1950s boylove with an oversexed 12-year-old. &quot;....The most intense affair happened between 1956 and 1958.... The boy, who was 12 when it started, not only told me that I was his 'best friend', but that I was his 'only friend'...! ....Since we both lived with our parents then, and both lived in the same apartment house, we were together alot... His intensity to be sexual with me was much stronger than mine was for him..!&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,,1589948,00.html Prominent British men on fagging in their public schools]'''<br /> *:Article by the Guardian<br /> *'''[http://www.inquisition21.com/article~view~69~page_num~2.html Gerald]'''<br /> *:Convicted for loving sex with teenage boys, after they made unfortunate spousal choices.<br /> *'''[http://www.martijn.org/info/2000_002_EN.html Dirk Tieleman]'''<br /> *:A journalist claims that a slightly coercive relationship worked to his own benefit. &quot;When I was thirteen, a boy of seventeen sexually used me for a period of time with slight coercion, but I never really felt bad about that. He jacked me off and forced me to jack him off, and at first I felt uncomfortable about that, but after a few times I began to enjoy it myself and the aspect of coercion trailed off. Off course, being a thirteen-year-old boy, I found it curious that I was doing such things with another boy, but I realize now that this first sexual experience has helped me approach girls - to whom I was far more attracted - confidently and without qualms later on. That first sexual experience with a boy was, to me, the perfect introduction to sexuality. [...] In the past years, since the Dutoux scandal, I've been hearing people say all the time that any form of sex with children would automatically lead to great disturbances and 'damage the innocent child's soul beyond repair', but I feel confident in stating with absolute certainty that I haven't suffered the least bit of damage from my first sexual experiences with that older boy - not as a child, and not now. On the contrary: I have always had a very normal and healthy sex life, perhaps even because of that first experience.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_553687.html Kevin B. Johnson's Boyfriend]'''<br /> *:&quot;The second boy [15/16?] described a sexual relationship with Johnson that began when the youth was a freshman in 2004 and continued until last month. He told police, &quot;I am not a victim. I was a willing participant,&quot; according to the affidavit.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.ipce.info/booksreborn/martinson/infant/InfantAndChildSexuality.html Floyd Martinson in his book &quot;Infant and Child Sexuality&quot;]'''<br /> *:Martinson quotes another's experience: &quot;My first homosexual experience came at the age of five or six, when I would play with this boy who was at that time about sixteen. He would ask me if I wanted to go into his house for something to eat, like some cookies or something. Of course I would go. Next he would ask me if I would go into the bedroom with him. Upon entering the bedroom, he would undress and ask me to do the same. I would, probably out of fright. I distinctly remember his body being very hairy, so perhaps I underestimated his age. Anyway, after undressing, he would tell me to bend over and then he would insert his erect penis into my anal region and start thrusting back and forth. He would then stimulate my penis and want me to do the same to him. We also masturbated each other, with him reaching orgasm and myself only being stimulated. I also spent some time in oral-genital contact. I did find the whole experience quite pleasing and continued to engage in these activities for a week or two. Then, and I don't recall why, we suddenly stopped doing it completely.&quot; <br /> *'''[http://home.wanadoo.nl/ipce/library_two/rind/rind_gay_boys_app.htm Bruce Rind, quoting accounts from Savin-Williams (1997).]'''<br /> *:[B: 13, M: 22] &quot;Subject and adult brother often massaged each other. &quot;This time, however, I got a little hard and then he noted I had grown so much since he last saw me naked. He asked me jokingly if he could suck my dick. I said 'yes' so we got off on each other. He did me and then I did him. He came all over me but I did not. This lasted a month until he headed back to work. I do miss him as a friend and a brother. Was nothing romantic.&quot; Subject added, &quot;I liked it, ... felt good. I wanted to do it again and again. I already knew my brother was gay and that I was attracted to men so this did not prove or disprove that I was gay.&quot;<br /> *:[B: 15, M: 27] &quot;[It was with] the mailman, honest to God! On and off for two years. The first time was when I came to the door to get a special delivery package in my sheer designer underwear, from American Male. I was changing to go back to school. He sprouted a boner, I got hard, he grabbed mine, I grabbed his, and we were off and running. Every day I'd come home for lunch; my mother worked. I had to be quick so he'd not get docked for late deliveries. He had a real thing for redheads like me. He was very forward, connected with me, and told me how hot I was. Talked about our backgrounds. It ended when he suddenly got transferred and contact became difficult. We visited each other and had sex, but it was hard and we agreed mutually because of the distance that it was better that we be friends and not lovers&quot; (p. 172).<br /> *:[B: 12, M: 22] It lasted 9 months with his science teacher. &quot;It developed over time and was great. We became friends and I invited him over once when my parents weren't home. I practically had to force sex on him because he was afraid about losing his job. Ended when I went away for the summer and he wasn't a teacher at my school no more&quot; (p. 163). &quot; <br /> *:[B: 12, M: 35] The man was a family friend; the sex was mutually initiated, oral, off and on for 10 years (a couple of times per month), and &quot;physically great.&quot; It confused the subject that the man was married, yet was willing to have sex with him. &quot;Eventually I fell in love with him; knew I was gay but did not broadcast this; I was curious because of the age difference. Mutual oral sex happened after he fondled me; it was the first orgasm I ever had.&quot; <br /> *:[B: 13, M: 38] &quot;Family friend. I initiated on a camping trip; we were in same tent at state park; oral sex to orgasm for both of us; several times during the night; incredibly erotic, tremendous release, very pleasurable. Not real close; didn't enjoy kissing. Afterwards scary because I enjoyed it so much. Not wanting to be near him on the trip because afraid others would notice. Once per month for the next 4 years that I initiated; never talked about it; sex was all it was. Wished I was straight so the attractions would go away, because the sexual gratification was so strong.&quot; <br /> *:[B: 14, M: 26] &quot;It was with a stranger; he initiated it; it involved oral and mutual masturbation, we did it 10 more times. I was excited, was loved and in love, got affection, but was not prepared for sex. It was not so l much that I wanted his affection; I was attracted to him. This relationship lasted a week then three months later we met again and we were sexual.&quot;<br /> <br /> *'''[[Bruce Rind]] - “The Problem with Consensus Morality”, ''Archives of Sexual Behavior,'' Vol. 31, No. 6, December 2002'''<br /> <br /> ::&quot;These are based on a sampling of interviews I recently conducted on individuals who learned about me from publicity surrounding my publications and contacted me to tell their stories. These cases, involving five men who had sex as boys around age 10 with men, dispute Schmidt’s claim that there can never be sexual consensus between prepubescents and adults. The cases are cross-national, coming from Australia, Canada, England, France, and the United States. The first three men are homosexual and the last two are heterosexual. All names have been altered to preserve confidentiality.<br /> <br /> :*Case 1. Nathan, a 45-year-old Brit, began being intensely curious about adult male genitalia when he was 8. At this age, in attempt to satisfy this curiosity, he surreptitiously went into the room of his household’s sleeping man servant and fondled him under his bed covers. By age 10, his curiosity had turned into sexual arousal. He unsuccessfully tried to solicit sex from men in locker rooms. At age 11, he met a neighbor man, whom he worked on over many visits in attempt to initiate sex. Eventually, he succeeded. In his many repeats with the man over the next 2 years, Nathan reported that he was the “conductor” - he controlled the sexual interactions. While still a boy, he had several other sexual relations with men, all of which he viewed as very positive. He thinks the sex helped his sexual self-confidence: as he matured, he knew exactly what he wanted in sex, while his peers were still searching.<br /> <br /> :*Case 2. James, a 23-year-old Canadian, first felt sexually aroused by other males at age 6 and had his first sex at 8 with a peer. At 11, he befriended a neighbor man, towhom he gave many signals, hoping for sex to occur. Eventually, it did, which made him feel proud and closer to the man. Over the next 3 years, he visited the man regularly, often secretly to avoid the possibility of his parents ending the relationship. He saw the relationship as very positive and said it built his personality (e.g., greater self-confidence) and influenced many of his tastes (e.g., an appreciation for literature).<br /> <br /> :*Case 3. Daniel, a 33-year-old Frenchman, was physically affectionate with his father starting at age 6. By 8, he became sexually attracted to him. At 10, he initiated sexual fondling with him, which the father accepted. In the sexual relationship, which lasted 4 years, Daniel always initiated the sex. In retrospect, he cherished the intimacy and described the relationship as &quot;beautiful, pure, security, confidence, and love.&quot; He said it built his sexual self-confidence.<br /> <br /> :*Case 4. At age 8, Dennis, a 21-year-old American, initiated sexual contact with a man friendly with his family, whom he suspected of being involved with his older brother. Sex occurred between them for the next 2 years. He said he usually initiated the encounters because he was always ready for sex. He described the relationship as the most positive he has ever had. He saw himself as having the upper hand, because he felt he had control over the man, who went to great lengths to fulfill his wishes. He felt that his adolescent and adult sexual relations went more smoothly because of the competence he got from these early experiences. Asked how a heterosexual male could have enjoyed homosexual relations, he answered that he was attracted to sex back then, not females or males per se.<br /> <br /> :*Case 5. John, a 22-year-old Australian, first realized his sexual arousal to girls at age 8. By 9, he felt lonely and was bullied by older boys, when he met a male neighbor in his late teens. They quickly became friends, and John spent a lot of time at his house. The young man eventually initiated masturbatory sex with him. John was at first apprehensive that others would find out, but became comfortable with the sex once he felt safe from this concern. The relationship lasted 3 years. He was proud to be seen with the older male, saw him as his protector, and saw the intimacy they had as the highlight of his life. Asked if the relationship was consenting, he said yes, because he wanted it, the young man wanted it, he loved the young man, so consent meant, &quot;Yes, do it.&quot;&quot;<br /> <br /> *'''[http://www.ipce.info/ipceweb/Library/01oct01c_my_father.htm My Father and I]'''<br /> *:Positive man-boy incest is interrupted by a mother. &quot;My father molested me from the time I was two till I was 15. We would lie naked and he would play with my penis. Then he would give me oral sex. When I was old enough I then started sucking him too. He never hurt me or tried to have anal sex with me, even though I wanted him to. I had anal sex with him, a few times, once my father decided my penis was big enough. My father and I would plan things around the times where we could meet and make each other feel good. My mother found out and two months ago my father was sent to prison. What my father did to me was not rape, at all. He never hurt me. In fact, I looked forward to spending the time with him but my mother and the police don't seem to listen.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.ipce.info/ipceweb/Library/00dec18c_a_professor_speaks.htm William Percy]'''<br /> *:Article &quot;UMASS professor advocates pederasty.&quot; William Armstrong Percy III says that when he was 14, he seduced a male soldier while traveling on a train. &quot;I never got enough sex with an older man. I don't see that I was harmed at all, except being deprived of not having more,&quot; said Percy. &quot;I was already the aggressor.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.ipce.info/library_3/files/tindall.htm The male adolescent involved with a pederast becomes an adult]'''<br /> *:Several accounts. &quot;During his 11th year he began spending his spare time around a service station, where he became acquainted with a master mechanic who was then in his early 40s, married, and childless. [...] On a fishing trip, during a break on an island, they began talking about sex, which led to Denver's being fellated by the mechanic and to masturbation of the mechanic by Denver. For the next 5 years mutual fellatio occurred two or three times per week. Sexual activity with the mechanic ceased at about age 19, but a close relationship continued to exist until the mechanic's death. Denver is now 44 years of age. [...] Denver remarried and has been a valued mechanic with the same company for 20 years. He has a supervisory position and believes that his relationship with his mechanic friend helped him reach his goals. He says he would have approved a similar relationship for either of his sons, had he become aware of such a situation. He reports no desire to have sex with males since approximately age 20.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/10/19/national/main2104978.shtml Mark Foley]'''<br /> *:Former American Republican, @13y/o. &quot;The Rev. Anthony Mercieca, 72, described several encounters that he said Foley might perceive as sexually inappropriate, the Sarasota Herald-Tribune reported. They include massaging Foley while the boy was naked, skinny-dipping together at a secluded lake in Lake Worth and being nude in the same room on overnight trips. &quot;Once maybe I touched him or so ... but I didn't, it's not something you call rape or penetration or anything like that,&quot; Mercieca told West Palm Beach station WPTV in a phone interview. &quot;He seemed to like it, you know? So it was sort of more like a spontaneous thing&quot;. Mercieca said.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://richarddawkins.net/article,118,Religionrsquos-Real-Child-Abuse,Richard-Dawkins Richard Dawkins]'''<br /> *:From an article of his, that despite not being exactly sex - positive, goes as far as is 'acceptable' in playing down the impact of nonviolent, situational fondling of children by priests, whilst attacking the religious dogmas that sometimes cause so much shame after such encounters. &quot;Being fondled by the Latin master in the Squash Court was a disagreeable sensation for a nine-year-old, a mixture of embarrassment and skin-crawling revulsion, but it was certainly not in the same league as being led to believe that I, or someone I knew, might go to everlasting fire. As soon as I could wriggle off his knee, I ran to tell my friends and we had a good laugh, our fellowship enhanced by the shared experience of the same sad pedophile. I do not believe that I, or they, suffered lasting, or even temporary damage from this disagreeable physical abuse of power. Given the Latin Master’s eventual suicide, maybe the damage was all on his side.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.ipce.info/ipceweb/Statements/factoids.htm Heinz Kohut]'''<br /> *:Strozier, quoting the Psychologist on his relationship as a child: &quot;I had this private tutor, who was a very important person in my life. He would take me to museums and swimming and concerts and we had endless intellectual conversations and played complicated intellectual games and played chess together&quot; They also did sexual things together, which they both enjoyed, but Kohut felt the sex was more or less incidental. The important thing for him was the relationship. He said &quot;I was an only child. So it was in some way psychologically life-saving for me. I was very fond of this fellow.&quot; Heinz was about 10 or 11 at the time. He describes his years with his tutor as being perhaps the happiest ones in his life.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://news.scotsman.com/farrightineurope/Fortuyn-favoured-depraved.2326187.jp Pim Fortuyn]'''<br /> *:Populist, anti - immigration, homosexual Politician from the Netherlands (deceased): &quot;Fortuyn's first experience occurred when he was five years old. &quot;The Dutch soldier asks if I want to see his tent. That's what I want. I like it and they all are sleeping on the ground in a sleeping-bag. I ask if it is hard and cold to sleep on the ground. Oh no, come here. Together we crawl in his sleeping-bag. The soldier asks my name and I ask his name. “He is called Arie and he asks if I like that name. Yes, I think that's a nice name and I lie beside him, nice and warm.&quot; Fortuyn then described a close sexual encounter with the soldier before leaving his sleeping-bag &quot;to go and play outside.&quot; He added: &quot;Can I come back tomorrow? Yes, tomorrow I may come back, says Arie.&quot; A few pages later, he describes another incident: &quot;I went to the park for a walk, it was very silent and the sun was shining. On the bench sat a young fellow. I stood still, curious.&quot; Fortuyn relates another sexual encounter - this time in explicit detail. He concludes: &quot;I was frightened and ran away to my home, to my mother. Excited, I ran into the room. My mother looked at me searchingly and asked what had happened. Nothing, of course. Watch out, little man, was the only thing she said. A glass of lemonade made me calm down. Yes, that was exciting.&quot; Most telling is his appraisal of these memories. &quot;In chapter 1 about the 1950s, I wrote about my early sexual experiences, experiences that I see as an enrichment. Today, an experience like that in the park could easily lead to a complaint by parents to the police because of paedophilia, and the relevant young man would be in trouble. But why? &quot;He didn't do me any harm. On the contrary, he showed me something that was incomprehensibly exciting and I could feel and touch it, but today we are ready to interfere with complete teams of professionals. By interfering in such an irritating and grown-up way in the world of children, we make an enormous problem of something that for a child is no problem at all and is only exciting.&quot;&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.mwillett.org/Debate/viewtopic.php?p=121929#121929 Todd Nickerson]'''<br /> *:A self-declared pedophile writes: &quot;I did have a single sexual encounter with an adult when I was a child, though I would hardly describe it as traumatic or even unpleasant. My memory of being touched—and that’s all it amounted to—is that it was, at most, a little confusing since I didn’t really understand what was taking place. Not that I really minded, though. In fact, after it occurred, I went immediately to a relative and bragged to her about it.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.boylover.net/ Boylover.net member on experiences as an 11-year-old boy]'''<br /> *:&quot;We piled back into the limo and it drove us to Toronto where we went to a stage play. I don’t remember what we saw because my head was still spinning about the fact that this attractive man, one who could have any female he wanted, was in love with me and was doing all this to make this night as special as he could. After the play, we headed for home. Limo drivers must have orders to ignore whatever they see going on in the back because ours got quite an eyeful. He was treated to the sight of an eleven-year-old boy and a nineteen-year-old man acting like boyfriends. We kissed, we petted, and we worked each other into an erotic frenzy, a frenzy for which there could only be one consummation.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.boylover.net/ Boylover.net member on intercourse]'''<br /> *:&quot;I was 10 and it was with an Adult Friend. I did not, nor do I now think I was abused. (well not by my AF anyway) I liked it. We only ever did the things I wanted to do.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.helping-people.info/Treatment/sot/offender.htm#3-6a_narrative_force Frans Gieles in an article of his]'''<br /> *:&quot;Craisatie (1998, among others page 117) describes a client who, as a child, had frequented a group, which in the book was called 'a child pornography ring'. As a child, he never had seen this as being abuse. Contrarily, he said that he'd gotten a lot of love, comradeship and care, which he did not get at home. Craisatie describes it as an example of successful treatment that his client ultimately abandoned his feeling of being loved and changed it into the feeling of being abused although this occurred only gradually and very late in the treatment process [...] Ehrenreich (2004) describes a man who for nineteen years was held in a closed clinic. He denied his offense, thus refused to speak about it, thus he did not cooperate, thus year after year his stay was renewed. Then, he changed tack: he 'acknowledged' his offense, he spoke about it, he did exactly what the therapists ordered, and said that he benefited from their treatment. This was the only way to be released. The man has been released. Then it turned out that his accusers had lied about everything they had said, under high pressure of the police: there never had been an offense.&quot;<br /> *'''Boy in Dan Tsang (1981)''', &quot;The age taboo&quot;. London: Gay Men's Press. <br /> *:&quot;It's often not the man who goes out to seduce the boy, but the other way round. In my first experience, I did the seducing. . . . It is mostly the boys who go out in search of sexual satisfaction from men...&quot;<br /> *'''[http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=bta8oOuDtoI (Man?) on YouTube]'''<br /> *:An extremely detailed account that was hindered by a voice concealer. Person had a positive relationship as youngster, and has met pedophiles.<br /> *'''[http://www.sunstar.com.ph/static/net/2007/10/19/orphans.admit.clown.fondled.them.html Carlock the Clown]'''<br /> *:Some young children pleaded with authorities not to press charges against a clown who played with them sexually. &quot;Surprisingly though, when asked by American embassy officials if they wanted their &quot;Kuya Paul&quot; charged in court for abusing them, all the three kids pleaded with the officials not to file a case against Carlock. &quot;Please don't file a case against Kuya Paul. He is a good man, he is a good man,&quot; the kids said. &quot;The kids told me that they loved the man so much because he was so good to them. They said they treated the man as their father. Paul gave them candies, lollipops,&quot; Karasuyama said.&quot; The clown was eventually [http://illinoishomepage.net/content/fulltext/?cid=9747 tasered and killed by police].<br /> *'''[http://terrygeorge.co.uk/home/?topic=440 Terry George on &quot;phone sex&quot; with Michael Jackson]'''<br /> *:According to George, Michael Jackson engaged him in &quot;phone sex&quot; at the age of 13: &quot;I do not feel like a victim and I never did feel like a victim,&quot; he said. See [http://terrygeorge.co.uk/home/?folder=13 directory] for other articles.<br /> *'''[http://www.freetimes.com/stories/13/43/confessions-of-a-proud-pedophile-phillip-distasio-says-getting-caught-was-all-part-of-his-plan Phillip Distasio]'''<br /> *:Imprisoned for life; a proud pedophile activist who had a relationship with an older man at 12. &quot;Distasio describes himself as a second-generation pedophile: at the age of 12, he began a relationship with an older man, a swimming instructor named Charlie, at a boys' club in Massachusetts. He says he's known about his proclivity since age 9. &quot;To me,&quot; he says, “it is as valid as any other sexual orientation.&quot;&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.broadbandreports.com/shownews/Cleaning-Up-Tor-82218 &quot;Jay78&quot; commenting on broadbandreports.com]'''<br /> *:&quot;Also, when I was about 6 years of age I was sexually &quot;used&quot; without coercion by an adult family member in ways that today would have put that person in prison. I almost forgot about that seemingly anecdotal incident and memory until I was reminded of it by the current hysteria over that kind of thing. Compared with the other things I experienced, that was not even worth thinking of, I would never hurt that person who did that and have a good relationship with that person today.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.ipce.info/library_3/files/rivas_howard_miller.htm &quot;Howard Miller&quot; as told to Titus Rivas, Ipce]'''<br /> *:&quot;We would zip our sleeping bags together and he would tickle and massage me all over. He would tell me dirty jokes while helping me with my homework and get me aroused. Then we would masturbate together. He satisfied me and then himself or we satisfied ourselves while watching each other. I thought that he was fascinating to look at and occasionally touch but not to satisfy. [...] I have only good feelings about what happened but am sad that most people will never be able to understand that. I also wish that we didn't have to worry about each other getting into trouble with the society over what happened. [...] Because I had such a positive experience as a child I believe that I can say with absolute certainty that sometimes such relationships can be very positive. Notice I don't say that they always will be, but heck more than 50% of marriages end in divorce. Most real child abuse occurs in families. Should then marriage be outlawed?&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.boylover.net/info/scrapbook/kolya_03.html Loren Robb and Kolya - Bulletin]'''<br /> *:A man tells of his loving relationship with a young native Arctic boy who he brought up in New Zealand.<br /> *'''[http://youfoundme.org/mylife.html My Life - Youfoundme.org]'''<br /> *:A very long testimony written by a person known to a contact of Newgon.com. &quot;It was the end of that summer that I learned what real heartache felt like. Sex was never the dominating factor in my relationship with James. I wanted to fool around a lot more than he did but I just liked being with him. He knew so much about construction and getting things to work that it was like being at school all the time except it was fun. Like any kid who hears his dad tell the same joke all the time I got tired of hearing &quot;plumbings easy boy, just remember shit flows down hill&quot;. What I really didn't want to hear was the day James told me we couldn't do the sex thing anymore. I don't recall his exact words but something to the effect &quot;this just isn't right or this isn't normal&quot;. I was crushed. It (our friendship) seemed so normal and great to me that I didn't understand why he felt that way. My suffering didn't come from the hands of an abuser, my suffer came from the words of a man who feared for my wellbeing. I kept telling him I was okay with things and nothing needed to change. Change did come and even my begging wouldn't get him to monkey around with me. It happened once or twice after the big talk but it was never the same.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2372/is_4_41/ai_n9488757/pg_1 Jessica L. Stanley (Researcher)]'''<br /> *:&quot;One man, at 14 years old, researched the location of gay bars and met a man with whom he had a few sexual encounters and with whom he has maintained a friendship for nearly 20 years.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2372/is_3_39/ai_94130312 Curtis Dolezal (Researcher)]'''<br /> *:&quot;participant was 10 when he had sexual contact on 20 occasions over 3 months with a 25-year-old male neighbor. The events involved mutual masturbation and oral sex. The participant did not feel coerced or hurt and did not feel it was sexual abuse &quot;because I seduced the neighbor.&quot;<br /> *'''[[Paedophilia: The radical case|O'Carroll 1980, p.83-84]]'''<br /> *:&quot;As a boy he became sexually mature at age twelve-and-a-half. &quot;It was like the world was beginning to make sense, to take on purpose and meaning. [...] I regard my meeting with Mr. S., then aged twenty-six, as a critical turning point in my love life. Until then, sex was fun, felt good and left me only moderately guilty. Once I approached Mr.S. (Yes, I approached him) with my thirteen-year-old impatience for intimacy, he told no one, responded positively to my shaky advances (didn't even laught at me!) and simply embraced me. [...] Here was a masculine adult man (happily married even), who was interested in doing with me what I was already finding exciting with my boy-friends. And through this relationship a new dimension was added to my experience which has not occurred to me before - tenderness, affection and love. (...) This affection was, in its way, just as satisfying as the ecstatic orgasms that punctuated our days and nights together. I regard this man, this relationship as a turning point because I was never the same after knowing him for two years - I was more in tune with myself after that...&quot;.<br /> *'''[[Sex met kinderen]], pages 75-76. (Untranslated - [[Frits Bernard]])'''<br /> *:A 25 year old man tells of a relationship struck up with a gay man when he was eight. They started having sex when he was ten, something that he enjoyed. The relationship lasts until he is 18.<br /> *'''&quot;En me vriendje houdt van mij: 23 verhalen uit het leven gegrepen&quot;, edited by Ben Füss and Gorrit Goslinga (Eindhoven: Stichting Uitgeverij NVSH, 1981)'''<br /> *:&quot;We had just moved and that was how I met a nice man, as a 13-year-old. We talked a lot, in his room. He was very interested in art and possessed a lot of books with pictures of works of art and sculpture. I had little interest for this but did not want to hurt Dick's feelings. Only the pictures that showed nudity captured my interest. I also tried to hide this. [...]&quot; This interest was noticed by Dick and it led to Dick briefly caressing the boy's genitals. Dick was very cautious and tried to end it immediately. The boy was very eager to have additional sexual experiences and finally persuaded Dick to allow him a visit. One thing led to another and the end result was a tender sexual relationship that lasted for about six years. After the war he re-established a life-long friendship with Dick, though without the sexual aspect. He was there when Dick died at age 83. He adds: &quot;The value of this relationship is something I continue to cherish till this very day.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/15/science/15gajdusek.html &quot;D. Carleton Gajdusek, Who Won Nobel for Work on Brain Disease, Is Dead at 85&quot;]'''<br /> *:&quot;D. Carleton Gajdusek, a virologist who won the 1976 Nobel Prize in medicine for his work on the mysterious epidemics now known as prion diseases, died last week in Tromso, Norway. [...] In later life, Dr. Gajdusek became notorious when he was charged with molesting the many young boys he had adopted in New Guinea and Micronesia and brought to live with him in Maryland. He pleaded guilty to one charge, served a year in prison and left the United States in 1998, dividing his time between Paris, Amsterdam and Tromso. [...] He also remained unrepentant about the sexual relationships with his adopted sons, Dr. Klitzman said. He considered American law prudish and pointed out that sex with young men was normal in the cultures he studied and in the classic Greek societies at the foundation of Western civilization. His legal assistant, Dorrie Runman, who was previously married to one of his sons, John Runman, said Dr. Gajdusek’s survivors included “his adopted sons and daughters, including Yavine Borimaand Jesse Mororui-Gajdusek in the United States, and two nephews, Karl Lawrence Gajdusek and Mark Terry.” His children were legally adopted, Ms. Runman said. He put several through college and graduate or medical school. Some of them, now in their 50s, supported him during his legal troubles, while one sibling testified against him.&quot;<br /> <br /> *'''[http://www.jungsforum.net/politik/messages/159581.htm Anon, in Berliner Zeitung (Translation)]'''<br /> *:&quot;Being 52 now, I got a relationship with a man at the age of 8-9 of whom I was told later that he was a paedophile. The relationship went on until I was about 14 years old and we were lucky that it remained undiscovered and free of police enquiries. Even today, so many years later, I remember my big friend with gratitude, as he made my coming out as a gay person later on – and many other things in my life - a lot easier for me. Since then, I have met numerous people who also had [consensual] sexual relationships with adults as children and teenagers and who are not ashamed of this. It is easy to understand why such people never get in touch with abuse counseling agencies, because they really don't need such help. That's how such centres get a completely one-sided view of so-called victims of abuse.&quot;.<br /> <br /> *'''''Paedophilia - What It Means To The Child'' by [[Frits Bernard]], printed in [http://exitinterview.biz/rarities/panfull.htm PAN 3] (pp. 15 - 17)'''<br /> **&quot;I was about 13 when I had my first paedophile experience. [...] The man who brought me into touch with homosexuality and whom I even loved physically was, and still is, one of my dearest friends. I remember what a wonderful feeling it was when he satisfied me for the first time. I was not troubled in the least by worries over having done 'perverted things', probably because I had no idea of what such things were. [...] The only trouble I have had over this was when I first told my fiancée about it.&quot;<br /> **&quot;When I was seven I had contact with a man who was especially nice to me. He used to take me to his attic, sit me on his lap and play with me sexually. I thought it was very nice and enjoyed it. I always looked forward to Wednesday afternoons, the days when we saw each other. This went on for a long time. Later I had many contacts with other men, but never with boys my own age. One day I went with a waiter to his house. I was very interested and excited. We had unusually satisfying sex together. I must have been about 14. Back home I was restless and went to see him the very next day on my own initiative. We had intercourse about twenty times in the following period. [...] Now, after a good life, I can see these early contacts as very positive to my development. I would not like to have missed them and I do not envy the people who never had these opportunities.&quot;<br /> **&quot;When I was about eight years old I got to know a man in the street who thought I played very nicely. He invited me out for a bicycle ride, and later to visit his home. [...] From him I received love, which actually I had never known (not, I mean, in the way I know it at present from my wife). [...] Later, when I was ten or eleven, we had sex with each other, something I always enjoyed.&quot;<br /> **Several further accounts involving slightly older minors are available in the article.<br /> <br /> *'''Zimmerman, Ann (1994). &quot;[http://www.dallasobserver.com/1994-11-17/news/tell-mama-why-you-cry-part-i/5 'Tell Mama Why You Cry' (Part I)],&quot; ''Dallas Observer'', November 17.'''<br /> *:&quot;The tape of Tim's interview could not be located, but according to Black's notes, Tim had seen his father touch his sister on her private parts on several occasions. &quot;He stated his father tickles Lima on her private parts and she likes it. When questioned further, Tim revealed his father also touches him on his private parts...at his house...Tim stated he doesn't mind his father doing this.&quot;<br /> <br /> *'''[[Terry Leahy]]: Positively Experienced Man/Boy Sex : The Discourse of Seduction and the Social Construction of Masculinity, ''Australian and New Zealand Journal of Sociology'' 28,1 (1992) pp. 71-88.'''<br /> *:A study of eight people who perceived their childhood (under 16) contacts with adults positively.<br /> *:&quot;Derek describes his first sexual encounter with a man in the following way. He is at the park at six o’clock on the swing. A man rushes towards him and begins to strip off:<br /> *::I just sat there looking. I didn’t know what to do but sort of thrilling. I looked, gawked, sort of ... I didn’t mind, I just kept on swinging on the swing. And I wasn’t scared or anything and he just come up to me and said ’Oh, how are ya?’ and I said ’Oh, not too bad’. In other words, coming on to me. And he turned around and said, ’Oh, what’s your name?’ And I’d tell him my name ’cause I wasn’t scared or anything because it was in a park and it was about six o’clock, really early, six, you know what I mean. And he just said, ’Would you like a drink?’ and I said ’No’. Then I started getting a bit nervy, nervous sort of thing. I knew, I must ... I knew in a way that he’d do something. So I just sat there, you know, and he said, ’Oh, would you like to come for a drive?’ Well I rushed him! So I just went for a drive with him and there we got off. First time, we got off ... I wanted to try it out. So I tried it. It was a really good feeling. Ever since then I kept on going.<br /> *:Here the narrative of this event begins with Derek sitting innocently on the swing. A man appears with obvious sexual intentions. Derek is instantly thrilled and takes voyeuristic pleasure in seeing him undress. He is not scared to go with the man and in fact ’rushes’ him. The sex is great and he has an orgasm. Even anal sex, though a bit uncomfortable at first, is enjoyed. All this has happened because he wanted to try it out and having done so he is eager to repeat the experience. This is typical of the discourse of male adolescent sexuality - spontaneous, adventurous, sexual pleasure is guaranteed, and casual contact is exciting. Derek presents himself as an active and initiating party. The events that take place are in reponse to his emerging self constituted sexual desire. All this works against any interpretation of Derek as a victim of homosexual seduction. Summarising his attitude to these sexual encounters on another occasion he concludes:<br /> *::I mean to say, sex is sex, you gotta, you know, well ... The way I feel, what would you do without it? It’s just something normal. Sex is just normal for everybody. Not just for me, for everybody and to do without ... I reckon it would be pretty hard to do without it so you’re just going to have to think.<br /> *:[...]<br /> *:Christopher’s interview provides a thorough discussion of these issues. At the time when he was interviewed he was in his mid thirties. His relationship with an adult gay man, George, began when he was about nine years old and lasted till he was eighteen. In a wry comment on the discourse of seduction he offered this remark:<br /> *::So I suppose then, you want to know now if I’m fucked up now sexually because of this terrible trauma of my childhood? Well - no. Umm. My main thrust - pun! - is heterosexual but ahh, I still occasionally sleep with males but when I say occasionally I mean very occasionally.<br /> *:[...]<br /> *:In particular, in discussing the various sexual activities in which he was engaged, Christopher stresses the physical pleasures of various acts and argues that his initial reservations about particular practices (oral sex, anal sex) were broken down as he received physical pleasure from these activities and came to feel that it was only fair to reciprocate.&quot;<br /> <br /> *'''[[Frits Bernard|Bernard, F.]] (1979). &quot;[http://exitinterview.biz/rarities/pan/htmfiles/pan3p13.htm Paedophilia: What it means to the child]&quot; ''[[PAN]]'', November 1979.'''<br /> <br /> :*A heterosexual male recalls at age 24: &quot;I had my first sexual contact with an older man in Rotterdam... It was nothing more than each of us quickly masturbating each other, looking shyly around us. Once this corner was turned a lot of other experiences followed. I can't say much about them, just sex and nothing more. One of the reasons nothing lasted was that the men were dead scared of being trapped. The iniative always came from me. I used to wear my shortest and cutest shorts and stroll across the market squares and through the busiest streets of Rotterdam until I saw someone I thought was 'like that' and then I allowed myself to be 'seduced'. That went on until I was 17. [...] I have no regrets about this period. I am only sorry that I never had what I was really looking for: an older friend with whom I could enjoy not only sex but all kinds of things, someone who could teach me about everything.&quot;<br /> <br /> :*An engaged, heterosexual male recalls at age 23: &quot;I was about 13 when I had my first paedophile experience (...) The man who brought me into touch with homosexuality and whom I even loved physically was, and still is, one of my dearest friends. I remember what a wonderful feeling it was when he satisfied me for the first time.&quot; Despite this, the man makes it clear that he does not approve of pedophilic contact, as it happens today.<br /> <br /> :*A heterosexual adult recalls at age 37: &quot;I must have been 14 [or] 15 at the time of my first sexual encounter with a man of about 30. I enjoyed these experiences. (...) I am now married and have four children. People with this inclination should fit into society and our society should accept this as natural. But it will be a very long time before this happens. (...) My earlier contacts of this kind were so upsetting to my parents that, at the time, I always had the feeling that I was dong something wrong. Now I see it as part of a personal experience which I would not like to see removed from my life.&quot;<br /> <br /> :*A gay man recalls at 67, the following contact with a 35-year-old man: &quot;When I was 7, I had contact with a man who was especially nice to me. He used to take me to his attic, had me sit on his lap and we had sexual contact with each other. I really found it pleasant and enjoyed it. I was always looking forward to Wednesday afternoons, the days we saw each other. This went on for a long period of time. [...] Now, as a nearly 68-year-old man, who has had a good life, I regard these contacts I used to have as very positive for my development. I would not have wanted to miss them, and I do not envy people who have never not had these opportunities. [...] Later I had many contacts with other men, but never with boys my own age. One day I went with a waiter to his house. I was very interested and excited. We had unusually satisfying sex together. I must have been about 14. Back home I was restless and went to see him the very next day on my own initiative. We had intercourse about twenty times in the following period.&quot;<br /> <br /> :*A straight man recalls at 25, the following relationship: &quot;When I was about eight years old I got to know a man in the street who thought I played very nicely. He invited me out for a bicycle ride, and later to visit his home (...) Gradually, we got to know each other... and I came to realise that he was homosexual. This did not shock me; I just wanted to know more about it. (...) From him I received love, which actually I had never known (...) Later, when I was ten or eleven, we had sex with each other, some-thing I always enjoyed. That lasted until I was eighteen, when I started going steady with a girl. When I became engaged I was able to tell my future wife with an easy mind about my youthful experiences. She could appreciate the whole thing very well. [We have] an especially good marriage, an especially fine sexual relationship, and an especially dear little daughter.&quot;<br /> <br /> *'''Wolf Vogel (author) ''[http://www.ipce.info/host/rivas/boys_men/bjorn.htm Heimliche Liebe: Eros zwischen Knabe und Mann]'', 1997. Translator writes of the following translation: &quot;includes the remarkable case of Björn and Jan, located in a major town in the North of Germany.&quot;'''<br /> <br /> :*&quot;When Björn (32) was a young boy, he met his adult friend Jan (45) and they still had a sexual relationship at the time of the interview. As a 10-year-old boy, Björn felt attracted to social worker Jan because of the latter's revolutionary ideas and Björn tried to provoke him with a lot of questions and remarks about sexuality. One day, when Björn was eleven and a half, they happened to meet near the town's riverbank. Björn tried to get Jan sexually interested in him and when they met at Jan's place he finally succeeded. Björn really wanted Jan to penetrate him, but Jan declined the offer and it took Björn a year to convince him that he was not afraid of getting physically hurt in the process. The boy really enjoyed this type of penetrative sexual contact and now that he's an adult, he's still doing it quite often with Jan. He remarks that if one wishes to speak of seduction in this relationship, it was him who was the seducing party. Their relationship has always stayed a secret for the people in their environment. Jan used to help Björn with the problems he was having with his parents, and also with his educational and professional progress.&quot;<br /> <br /> *'''Seth Mydans (author) ''[http://www.nytimes.com/1989/02/05/world/in-a-philippine-town-child-prostitution-despite-protests-is-a-way-of-life.html In a Philippine Town, Child Prostitution, Despite Protests, Is a Way of Life]'', 1989.'''<br /> <br /> :*&quot;Drive into this green and quiet town [Pangsanjan, Philippines] 40 miles southeast of Manila and groups of men will run alongside your car, banging on the windows, offering a choice of the local attractions: A boat ride to the scenic waterfall or a child prostitute. (...) When Mrs. Zaide's group, the Council of Citizens for the Protection of Children, pasted up posters warning against prostitution, the citizens of Pagsanjan tore them down. Stones were thrown at the houses of council members. When the Immigration Commission a year ago arrested 22 foreigners who were engaged in prostitution rings, some parents, the recipients of their largesse, testified in their defense. (...) Estafania Aldaba-Lim, a former minister of social welfare who has studied the Pagsanjan situation, said local residents discovered the easy money in male prostitution when American filmmakers came to town to shoot scenes for &quot;Apocalypse Now.&quot; &quot;I suppose some gays with the crew fell in love with the young macho boatmen,'&quot; she said, &quot;and then it went to much younger boys, down to 9, 10, 11 years old, and the whole town got in on it.&quot; (...) But, Miss Zaide said child prostitution continues. One Swiss national, she said, married the sister of his 15-year-old male lover and has applied to return home not with his wife but with his new brother-in-law. &quot;The family is proud of it,&quot; Miss Zaide said. It flaunts his gifts, which include one of the better residences in town. '''At school, according to another member of Miss Zaide's group, children proudly display the new clothes, pocket money and other gifts that they receive from their patrons, tempting other children to follow their example.''' [emphasis ours] One Third of Boys Are Involved. Miss Zaide estimated that one-third of the youngsters have taken part in the sex trade in this town of 22,000, where 65 percent of the population is below the age of 18. When teachers confront the parents of these children, she said, the parents ask them, &quot;What can you give us in exchange? Can you pay for my child's schooling? Can you give him an allowance? Can you build a home for us?&quot;&quot;<br /> <br /> *'''&quot;Neil&quot; in Birkett, D. ''[http://www.deabirkett.com/pages/journalism_film/film/monsters_with_human_faces.htm The Devil Amongst Us - accompanying article]'', 1997.'''<br /> <br /> :*&quot;During my research I met Neil, a gay man now aged 40, who enjoyed having sex with adult men from the age of nine. &quot;It seems to be politically correct, even within the gay movement, to be anti-paedophile. But when I ask gay male friends when they first had sex they say, 'Oh, ten, 11, 12, with a bloke down the road who was 22.' He was probably a paedophile!&quot;&quot;<br /> <br /> *'''&quot;Dan&quot; in Newberger, Eli H., ''Bringing Up a Boy'' (Perseus Books, 1999)<br /> :This is a general guide for parents. From the section on gay adolescents comes this:<br /> <br /> :&quot;In ninth grade, Dan began sexual activity with men, some in their twenties, others in their thirties or older. He meets many of them in gay clubs. He also feels confident initiating contact with strangers in public, in stores, for example. He is diligent about safe sex and careful not to make himself vulnerable to sexual exploitation by drinking too much, but he has a considerable number of sexual contacts during a year.&quot; <br /> <br /> [[Category:Official Encyclopedia]][[Category:Testimony]][[Category:Testimony: Contact]]<br /> <br /> [[fr:Témoignages: Adulte mâle avec mineur mâle]]</div>

StephenJames http://newgon77idcem62vqlfge3jkidjenvf6afhxwr2napk4kpp2labjbdid.onion/wiki/index.php?title=Testimony:_Adult_Male_with_Minor_Male&diff=5875 2009-09-23T04:20:18Z

<p>StephenJames: </p> <hr /> <div>{{Template:A&amp;T}}<br /> *'''[http://dir.salon.com/story/mwt/feature/2002/07/22/coming_of_age/ Minor report] by David Tuller in Salon.com, July 22, 2002.'''<br /> **An aircraft maintenance worker describes his first experience at thirteen with a man of about 30 who had hired him to do yard work. After inviting him inside and showing him pictures of men wrestling, the man “started rubbing my crotch, and I was both nervous and really excited by it.” He went on to seek out other significantly older men. “I never felt used. I really wanted it, and except for the first time I always felt like the aggressor.” <br /> **Noted gay novelist Edmund White talks about picking up men at Chicago beaches and public restrooms from the age of 13 or 14. “I was very oversexed, absolutely driven wild by desire. ... The first one was a handsome architect, who actually had children older than me. I was absolutely fascinated by him, and I seduced him. I followed him to his car, walked right up to him and started talking to him. My mother was away and I said, ‘Come back to my apartment.’ And it was terrific.” <br /> ** In an essay about sex between adolescents and adults, David Tuller relates his own desire as a 15-year-old &quot;tormented homosexual wannabe.&quot; Upon seeing the movie Summer of '42, in which a young widow &quot;pulls Hermie into her arms and, in her grief, into her bed,&quot; he says, &quot;I cried while I watched, ... because I so yearned for the tender moments that Hermie found.&quot; <br /> **A gay health care professional in his 50s discusses how the relationship he pursued with a family friend in his early 20s helped him learn at the age of fifteen that men could care for each other. &quot;It was clear that it certainly felt good to both of us. ... In some way it was a real lifesaver, because it made me feel that love and affection and closeness and sex would be possible in my life. ... when we were together, it was like a little oasis where we could be ourselves.&quot; <br /> ** A businessman in Denver recounts his two-year relationship, from age fifteen, with his 29-year-old boss at the restaurant where he worked. &quot;It was frightening and invigorating and I felt clumsy and awkward. But he was playful and fun and very gentle. I never felt coerced. As foreign as it was to me I was very open to it. Afterwards, I felt good, like I'd experienced something I'd wanted to for a long time.&quot; Speaking of how it affected his life at the time, he says, &quot;I wasn't an awkward, out-of-place kid anymore. I felt appreciated for being gay, instead of being an outcast and made fun of. Suddenly I had this new self-confidence. I didn't have to hate myself for being gay.&quot; <br /> *'''[http://www.boychat.org/messages/932440.htm A long and varied career by Ambar] on BoyChat, July 2005.'''<br /> *:A man recounts his earliest sexual experiences, including with his best friend’s father at eight years old: “He became my second very, very, very best friend and so began a wonderful, loving relationship. I still adore that man :-)” <br /> *'''[http://newgon.com/CPP/HFP-072.htm Letter from John] in HFP Mailbag and [http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/13023005/ Sexual Abuse from a Victim] by John Tate, December 7, 2004.'''<br /> *:A 17-year-old reports on the anguish in his life stemming from sexual activity with his grandfather from age seven and attributes the worst aspects to society’s attitudes about it: “I think if this sort of thing was tolerated I would not have felt so fucking alienated, so hated, as a child, I would have not been an outcast.” <br /> *'''[http://www.boychat.org/messages/932397.htm count me IN !!! :))] by siao on BoyChat, July 2005. '''<br /> *:A man recounts his first experience of sex with an adult at seven years old: “suddenly fun was &quot;in&quot; … gosh, what was that twirling feeling which went all thru me ???” He also speaks of such encounters with many other men, saying, “NOT A SINGLE ONE EVER ABUSED ME ! I was free to say 'YES!!!!' and also knew how to say 'no' if there were ever anything I might not want.” <br /> *'''[http://www.bostonmagazine.com/articles/boy_crazy/ Boy Crazy] in Boston Magazine, May 2001'''<br /> **Famous poet Allen Ginsberg commented on the 1977 pedophilia scandal in Revere, Massachusetts, &quot;I had sex when I was 8 with a man in the back of my grandfather’s candy store in Revere, and I turned out okay.&quot; <br /> **Best-selling Canadian author James Dubro was 14 in 1961 when he started having sex with a 22-year-old college student who remains his friend 40 years later. <br /> *'''[http://newgon.com/CPP/BC-146796.htm My Story: A story of a boy] by Elf on BoyChat, October 1998.'''<br /> *:A man in his mid-20s tells his story. When he was nine or ten years old, he responded willingly to the seduction of a 16- or 17-year-old neighbor boy. They had a passionate love affair for over a year until they were discovered and his father beat him savagely. The older boy’s family disappeared from town. This man wrote of that affair as the best thing that ever happened to him and attributed his deep problems at the time of writing to the brutal way it was torn away from him. <br /> *'''&quot;[http://newgon.com/CPP/Spike/xaboutme.htm Spike]&quot; on his website'''<br /> *:A 15-year-old boy writes about his adult lover: “When I was 10, I found myself a mentor, a wonderful old man that needed me as much as I needed him. … J has been the best thing that could ever have happened to me. Everything I am today I owe to J. He and Mom are both educated people who believe that I must prepare myself for adulthood by learning how to learn, how to think for myself, and how to believe in myself … Mom sees the results of my association with J, and she could not be more pleased.” <br /> *'''[http://newgon.com/CPP/Hoby-mod.htm Hoby] on his website'''<br /> *:A boy proclaims his interest in adult men and says, “You should be able to love whoever you want when you want and as long as you both happy it dont matter what anyone else thinks.” <br /> *'''''[http://newgon.com/CPP/Arlekin/complain-mod.htm My Complaints]'' by David Alejandro, December 1996, on his website.'''<br /> *:A 13-year-old boy makes an impassioned plea for sexual freedom: “I want to love and be loved by whom I want. For the last two years I have an older friend. I am not gay, I like girls. He doesn’t, but we understand each other very well. It is nobody’s business what we do or don’t do. … Stop protecting me, please!” (Note: His site history page indicated that he was 13 when he posted this page and 15½ in June 1999. The English index pages said that he lived in the “Land of the Incas.”)<br /> *'''[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voor_een_verloren_soldaat Voor Een Verloren Soldaat] (For A Lost Soldier), autobiographical novel by Rudi van Dantzig, 1986 and 1992 movie made from it'''<br /> *:Acclaimed ballet dancer and choreographer Rudi van Dantzig tells the story of his brief romance at twelve with a Canadian soldier at the end of World War II. <br /> *'''[http://newgon.com/CPP/Stefan/index.htm Stefan] on his web page'''<br /> *:A 12-year-old in Holland says, “I will tell you about my BEST friend. He’s 28 and works at home. I love him the most in the world and he loves me. He says I’m the cutest boy in the world.” <br /> *'''[http://www.scottohara.com/obit.htm Scott O'Hara], quoted in his obituary at the Spirit of Stonewall Press Conference, New York City, June 24, 1994.'''<br /> *:The publisher of Steam magazine says, “When I was 12 and 13 years old I would have joined NAMBLA in a minute, because I knew I was gay and I wanted to go out and get laid, not just read The Gay Mystique all my life; I needed personal contact.” <br /> *'''Ik Wilde Meer! (“[http://www.martijn.org/info/Martijn/martijn02.pdf I Want More!]”) in Martijn (PDF, 6 Mb), December 1980, page 16-18, in Dutch.'''<br /> *:A married man reports on his 6-year-long relationship with a man who showed him erotic art and masturbated him. The relationship later turned platonic and the younger man was at the older’s deathbed 37 years later. <br /> *'''[http://www.boylover.net/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/10/194.html tribute to frank] by mick15 on BoyLover.net, December 7, 2005.'''<br /> *:A teenaged boy describes his loving, sexual relationship with his soccer mentor, who had recently died. <br /> *'''I want to speak out!!!!!!!! by “15 yr old boy” on BoyChat, September 2000.'''<br /> *:A 15-year-old boy writes about his adult lover: “He is the best thing that has ever happened to me. … I wish this world would just open its eyes and see that relationships like this are healthy and good for boys my age—but yes only if the boy wants the relationship.” <br /> *'''[http://newgon.com/CPP/Adam-mod.htm There is Magic Out There] by Joshua Adam on his website.'''<br /> *:A 13-year-old in the 10th grade writes about the emotional support he gets from his older friend, Angel, who is helping him overcome the hatred cast upon him by his family and school for liking other boys. Angel and Adam have never met in person and do not plan to do so. Their relationship is entirely nonsexual, although it is definitely one of love and mentorship.<br /> *'''Author [http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1588180395 Kirk Read]'''<br /> *: In his 2001 book, How I Learned to Snap, Kirk Read tells of his sexual experiences with adults starting at age 13, which he says saved his life. &quot;Intergenerational sex saved my life&quot;, &quot;American culture's only frame of reference for sex with minors is abuse. I don't deny that abuse occurs, but this should be addressed on a case-by-case basis. A blanket approach that criminalizes all sex between adults and minors undermines the fact that for many gay teenagers, sex with an adult can be a beautiful, life-changing experience. It was for me&quot;, &quot;I sought out sex with older men time and time again as a teenager. I had fumbling sexual encounters with other kids as a preadolescent, but they always left me unsatisfied. None of us knew what we were doing, and our shame and fear overwhelmed any joy of discovery&quot; (pp.57-59) [http://www.nambla.org/snap.htm Reviewed] by NAMbLA.<br /> <br /> *'''[http://newgon.com/CPP/Shane-mod.htm Shane] on his website'''<br /> *:A 14-year-old gay boy in Australia says, “I have one really good adult friend that knows about my sexuality, … Steve has never tried anything sexual with me, although I often wish he would.” <br /> *'''[http://www.boychat.org/messages/932399.htm Under My House . Tent Sleeping . Neighbors Bedroom] by Linca on BoyChat, July 2005. '''<br /> *:A man recounts his first experiences of sex, including with an adult neighbor at 14: “[He] did with me … what he had been wanting to do with me since I was 8 years old. We are friends to this day.” <br /> *'''Two posts by hyacinth on BoyChat: [http://newgon.com/CPP/BC-663921.htm May 2002] [1] and [http://www.boychat.org/messages/932570.htm July 2005] [2]'''<br /> *:A man describes his childhood sexual experiences with adults. The first was anal sex with a benedictine monk at 14 years old: “I was't stupid, at 14 I knew my way around … He was very nice and very gentle, and I liked him alot.” [1] Next was a relationship that lasted for a year and a half with a man and his two sons. [2] <br /> *'''[http://newgon.com/CPP/Benjamin-LettersOfBoy.htm Letters of a Loving Boy--Excerpted letters and diaries of boys], edited by Jarod Benjamin, 1997.'''<br /> *:A 14-year-old boy wrote a series of love letters, unsuccessfully courting an adult friend for a more intimate relationship. <br /> *'''[http://newgon.com/CPP/Mogenic-LikeGreece.htm Just Like Greece? — Gay Teen Dates Septuagenarian], an interview of “:John ”: by Brandon K. Thorp in ''Mogenic'', June 2006.'''<br /> *:A 22-year-old man talks about the 67-year-old man he met at the museum where they were both volunteering when he was 13. A friendship emerged based on unusually common interests for such a pair. The relationship evolved into mentoring and eventually romance, which became sexual two years later. They remained occasionally intimate for five years while the teenager also began to explore relationships with his age peers. Looking back on the man’s death when he was 20, he says, “He enhanced the quality of my youth, and his influence will likely enhance the quality of my entire adult life. And I enhanced his old age. We both got something out of it.” <br /> *'''[http://newgon.com/CPP/Aaron/index.htm Aaron], on his website'''<br /> *:A 15-year-old boy talks about his adult lover on his website. <br /> *'''[http://www.nambla.org/boys.htm Boys Speak Out on Man/Boy Love], NAMBLA, 1981.'''<br /> *:NAMBLA published a book with first-person accounts of 29 boys about their relationships with older men. Titles include ''The Best Thing That Ever Happened to Me'' by Greg, 16, ''It Shouldn’t Be a Crime to Make Love'' by Bryan, 12, ''If It Wasn’t for Mark I’d Probably Be Dead Today'' by Carl, 14, ''I Need My Lovers'' by Tyrone, 16, and ''It Was Me Who Started It'' by Frank, 15. <br /> *'''The perspective of a loving boy in [http://newgon.com/CPP/Benjamin-BoysAndBoylovers.htm On Boys and Boylovers] by Jarod Benjamin, 1997.'''<br /> *:Jarod Benjamin’s 1997 study of male-male pedophilia includes a section that reports on pedophile relationships from the point of view of boys in them. Reference is also made to 620 quotes of boys in Edward Brongersma’s [http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1557410038 Loving Boys].<br /> *'''[http://www.thinkandask.com/2006/042106-john.html Baseball, Boys, One Man on Illegal Love]'''<br /> *:A boy happily participates in a sexual and emotional relationship with an older man beginning at age 12. &quot;Jesse is less than half John's age and turned 15-years-old in April, but the boy is not his son. Jesse &quot;is my lover,&quot; John said, &quot;but the feelings are mutual, this is a consensual relationship.&quot; John met Jesse (not his real name) when the boy was homeless three years ago. [...] In Jesse's own words, &quot;John knows me, he's here inside my head already, I mean all along. He is my dad, boyfriend, best friend, brother, all in one. He's great,&quot; he grins as he chats with a friend on the office computer. [...] &quot;I brought it up and told him how I felt and offered to take care of him. That is when he said he was in love with me and never wanted to leave,&quot; John said.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.petertatchell.net/age%20of%20consent/14%20gay%20boyfriend.htm Lee]'''<br /> *:Gay sex at 8 / various illegal / all consenting &quot;Lee is 14. He's been having sex with boys since the age of eight, and with men since he was 12. Lee has a serious problem. He wants a steady relationship and has been going out recently with a guy in his mid-twenties, who he met at the hairdressers. But in the eyes of the law, Lee's partner is a paedophile and Lee is a victim of child abuse. That's not, however, the way Lee sees it: &quot;I want to have a boyfriend. It's my choice. No one's abusing me. Why should we be treated like criminals?&quot;. This is a live issue for Lee because he prefers relationships with older guys. &quot;I don't get on with people my own age&quot;, says Lee. &quot;They're too immature. I like men in their 20s or early 30s. They are more experienced and serious. With them, you can get into a closer relationship than with a teenager&quot;.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://danpedo.sexualpolitik.se/english/davidgb.php#1 David]'''<br /> *:Gay sex at 13 with a man in his mid-30s. &quot;[O]ne day he started telling me about all the boys he'd had, and.., we finally ended up in the next room. We had a good time. I actually thought it was a little funny; at one point I even started to laugh. I don't know why -- I just had this weird need to laugh. [...] It was all so new. It was exciting. [...] (Interviewer: It [your relationship] all sounds very rosy...) Yes, it's really, really great.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/vigilance-vital-to-keeping-vile-paedophiles-at-bay-57221.html Unnamed 13/14-year-old boy]'''<br /> *:Claims that he consented, but others saw it very differently! [username: as@df.com, p/w: asdf] &quot;The young lad in question, who was 13 when his contact with these paedophiles began, claims that the sexual relationships he had with them were all consensual. In other words, he is stating that he was not raped, and that, to his mind at least, there was no abuse.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.logicalreality.com/openbb/read.php?TID=1785&amp;page=4 Pat Kelly]'''<br /> *:Aged 5, he helped a boy, 17, masturbate; was grateful for his invitation (Forum down. Pat was the webmaster behind the rational humanist website LogicalReality.com and the associated forums. He claims to have enjoyed hiding in a garage and masturbating the other boy, much like a schoolboy would enjoy being allowed into the staffroom - the world of adults, with which he was so fascinated).<br /> *'''[http://www.martijn.org/info/OK41_EN_1.html Andre and Dennis]'''<br /> *:Educationalist on his relationship with a primary schoolboy. &quot;Actually, it really lasted quite a while before the sexual side of our relationship started to take shape; I did not dare begin with this so soon. André does feel a bit guilty towards Dennis' mother that he never brought up the sexuality. He asks himself if she may not have figured out after all, because every now and then she has made remarks that could point to that. She does know that Dennis and André have a very physical contact with each other and kiss each other. Basically, he would like to talk about it, but, understandably, this is not easy. On being asked, Dennis had a clear opinion: 'She does not need to know!'&quot;<br /> *'''&quot;[http://www.martijn.org/page.php?id=1171983 11-year-old faggot]&quot;'''<br /> *:Talks to NAMbLA. Boys speak out. Order: Nambla, P. O. Box 174, Midtown Sta. New York, NY10018 &quot;My first statement is that I want to dispel the image that a child is an ''innocent little puppy dog''. Children have plenty of knowledge about life, the universe and everything. But adults tend not to listen to their children. This ''innocent puppy'' syndrome represses the child's social, sexual, political, economical, and emotional desires. Children are not taken seriously and are expected to conform to a society in which they can't question its validity. This has got to stop! [...] A child is a sexual being. Therefore, children should have the right to explore any aspect of sexuality they desire to engage in. Why do parents, politicians, and police (the 3 p's) feed guilt into children that are sexually active? [...] Many people have been destroyed because of intergenerational relationships, people who could offer the world a lot if they had just not been persecuted for being different. Burning witches is a pastime which is just regaining popularity in the States.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.p-loog.info/English/interview_3_b/johnny.htm Johnny]'''<br /> *:Maternally approved Gay sex at 12 &quot;(Interviewer: What are the negative aspects of your contact with Ferdinand?) Tss ... There aren't any. [...except] to explain that to my family, or to keep his orientation hidden from them.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.p-loog.info/English/interview_3_b/peter.htm Peter]'''<br /> *:Happy with pedophile contacts from an early age (around ten) &quot;(Interviewer: What are the negative aspects of your contact with Ferdinand?) I don't have any.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.p-loog.info/English/interview_3_b/stephan.htm Stephan]'''<br /> *:Descriptive account of yet another acceptable relationship, beginning at age 11. &quot;Ferdinand really picked me up in a terrific way. I have learned lots from him, I've had many experiences and I've done lots of things with Ferdinand. I have learned something about human nature from Ferdinand. And other important things in society, responsibility, how to go about with money. I still don't do that very well, you know, it just didn't stick with me. But, you know, that sort of thing. The important things in life. Before Ferdinand I didn't know about any of these things and through him I have discovered them. Also, I always say, &quot;I didn't have a childhood until I met Ferdinand. Then I received my childhood.&quot; And that is really how it was because before that I had so many problems. [...] (Interviewer: What are the negative aspects of your contact with Ferdinand?) Not one! That is very easy to say. Not one.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://web.archive.org/web/20040823204921/http://www.logicalreality.com/openbb/read.php?TID=164 Pluto]'''<br /> *:Emotional need for sex with a boy, at 56, after enjoying the reverse long ago. Pluto's early childhood experience involved showering with a grown man, and enjoying sexual contact. At the time of the act, it would have most certainly been disapproved of, but there was no moral panic in place to rob him of his self-worth. &quot;Yes, I did have sex with an adult when I was very young--10, 11, 12 years old--and I treasure and cherish the memories... [...] I was not hurt in any way by it. i only wish there had been more times when he fooled around with me.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.ipce.info/host/sandfort_87/Appendix.htm Thijs and Joop]''' (in [[Theo Sandfort]]'s ''Boys on their contacts with men'')<br /> *:Befriended by a boylover at nine, and enjoying sex &quot;(Interviewer: What do you find the unpleasant aspects of sex with Joop?) There aren't any. I don't know of any, at least. [...] (Interviewer: Can you say who starts it, when you have sex?) Either of us. Sometimes me, yeah, mostly me. But he, too, real often. [...] (Interviewer: What do you think your mother would feel about your having sex with Joop?) I guess she'd think it was dirty. She'd think a man doing that with a child wasn't normal, that you just shouldn't do it. That's what she'd say. (Interviewer: And how do you feel about her thinking that way?) Rotten stupid! Although I wouldn't tell her it was rotten stupid. I mean, what business is it of hers? It's my business what I do. [...] (Interviewer: How do you feel about your having sex with Joop?) It's just really nice. (Interviewer: It's no problem for you?) It's just like a man going to bed with a woman--I think it's exactly the same: nice. And the feelings and so on they have, I have too.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.freewebtown.com/newsstand/archive/0316.html Unnamed Indian Boy]'''<br /> *:Newspaper article about M8 + M19 sex and the victim syndrome &quot;Once I was about 15, I grew familiar with terms like paedophilia and child abuse and started to realise what I had been through. This too had a downside. I found myself in 'the victim syndrome'. I started using this incident as an excuse to endear myself to people and constantly looked at myself as victimised in relationships and emotional circumstances. This persists even today but I try to rid myself of this misery.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showpost.php?p=3730495&amp;postcount=250 Sateryn on IIDB]'''<br /> *:Got a 'kick' out of illegal sex play with adults, at five, but disliked the following investigation &quot;you know the most traumatic part about being molested as a child? sitting in a room with your parents and a therapist staring at you, forcing you to take naked cloth dolls and use them to put on a puppet show to show the adults what happened to you. the physical act of it? the molestation itself? hell, it was interesting... i was 5, it was something new, and i lucked out in that it wasn't violent, just people getting their rocks off - and quite frankly i got a kick out of it, at the time.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?p=3924233#post3924233 IIDB]'''<br /> *:Another member comments about their indifference, and expands later on. &quot;I remember one incident when I was 9 or so and my uncles were 20 and 21. They brought me and a cousin who's about my age to their room and we engaged in oral sex. It was a one-time thing, but I didn't repress the memory, felt ashamed by it, or otherwise damaged by it. We didn't talk about it though, and it doesn't come to mind often. Is that counted as abuse? I had no strong feelings about it then or now. [...] I don't claim that it didn't affect me then, but it affected me in the way sexual activities affect us at that age - that of guilt of doing something I was taught is wrong or shameful. It's the same feeling I got then after masturbation and sexual experimentation with my friends, male and female.&quot;<br /> *'''[https://www.boychat.org/messages/967788.htm Hangtwenty]'''<br /> *:1950s boylove with an oversexed 12-year-old. &quot;....The most intense affair happened between 1956 and 1958.... The boy, who was 12 when it started, not only told me that I was his 'best friend', but that I was his 'only friend'...! ....Since we both lived with our parents then, and both lived in the same apartment house, we were together alot... His intensity to be sexual with me was much stronger than mine was for him..!&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,,1589948,00.html Prominent British men on fagging in their public schools]'''<br /> *:Article by the Guardian<br /> *'''[http://www.inquisition21.com/article~view~69~page_num~2.html Gerald]'''<br /> *:Convicted for loving sex with teenage boys, after they made unfortunate spousal choices.<br /> *'''[http://www.martijn.org/info/2000_002_EN.html Dirk Tieleman]'''<br /> *:A journalist claims that a slightly coercive relationship worked to his own benefit. &quot;When I was thirteen, a boy of seventeen sexually used me for a period of time with slight coercion, but I never really felt bad about that. He jacked me off and forced me to jack him off, and at first I felt uncomfortable about that, but after a few times I began to enjoy it myself and the aspect of coercion trailed off. Off course, being a thirteen-year-old boy, I found it curious that I was doing such things with another boy, but I realize now that this first sexual experience has helped me approach girls - to whom I was far more attracted - confidently and without qualms later on. That first sexual experience with a boy was, to me, the perfect introduction to sexuality. [...] In the past years, since the Dutoux scandal, I've been hearing people say all the time that any form of sex with children would automatically lead to great disturbances and 'damage the innocent child's soul beyond repair', but I feel confident in stating with absolute certainty that I haven't suffered the least bit of damage from my first sexual experiences with that older boy - not as a child, and not now. On the contrary: I have always had a very normal and healthy sex life, perhaps even because of that first experience.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_553687.html Kevin B. Johnson's Boyfriend]'''<br /> *:&quot;The second boy [15/16?] described a sexual relationship with Johnson that began when the youth was a freshman in 2004 and continued until last month. He told police, &quot;I am not a victim. I was a willing participant,&quot; according to the affidavit.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.ipce.info/booksreborn/martinson/infant/InfantAndChildSexuality.html Floyd Martinson in his book &quot;Infant and Child Sexuality&quot;]'''<br /> *:Martinson quotes another's experience: &quot;My first homosexual experience came at the age of five or six, when I would play with this boy who was at that time about sixteen. He would ask me if I wanted to go into his house for something to eat, like some cookies or something. Of course I would go. Next he would ask me if I would go into the bedroom with him. Upon entering the bedroom, he would undress and ask me to do the same. I would, probably out of fright. I distinctly remember his body being very hairy, so perhaps I underestimated his age. Anyway, after undressing, he would tell me to bend over and then he would insert his erect penis into my anal region and start thrusting back and forth. He would then stimulate my penis and want me to do the same to him. We also masturbated each other, with him reaching orgasm and myself only being stimulated. I also spent some time in oral-genital contact. I did find the whole experience quite pleasing and continued to engage in these activities for a week or two. Then, and I don't recall why, we suddenly stopped doing it completely.&quot; <br /> *'''[http://home.wanadoo.nl/ipce/library_two/rind/rind_gay_boys_app.htm Bruce Rind, quoting accounts from Savin-Williams (1997).]'''<br /> *:[B: 13, M: 22] &quot;Subject and adult brother often massaged each other. &quot;This time, however, I got a little hard and then he noted I had grown so much since he last saw me naked. He asked me jokingly if he could suck my dick. I said 'yes' so we got off on each other. He did me and then I did him. He came all over me but I did not. This lasted a month until he headed back to work. I do miss him as a friend and a brother. Was nothing romantic.&quot; Subject added, &quot;I liked it, ... felt good. I wanted to do it again and again. I already knew my brother was gay and that I was attracted to men so this did not prove or disprove that I was gay.&quot;<br /> *:[B: 15, M: 27] &quot;[It was with] the mailman, honest to God! On and off for two years. The first time was when I came to the door to get a special delivery package in my sheer designer underwear, from American Male. I was changing to go back to school. He sprouted a boner, I got hard, he grabbed mine, I grabbed his, and we were off and running. Every day I'd come home for lunch; my mother worked. I had to be quick so he'd not get docked for late deliveries. He had a real thing for redheads like me. He was very forward, connected with me, and told me how hot I was. Talked about our backgrounds. It ended when he suddenly got transferred and contact became difficult. We visited each other and had sex, but it was hard and we agreed mutually because of the distance that it was better that we be friends and not lovers&quot; (p. 172).<br /> *:[B: 12, M: 22] It lasted 9 months with his science teacher. &quot;It developed over time and was great. We became friends and I invited him over once when my parents weren't home. I practically had to force sex on him because he was afraid about losing his job. Ended when I went away for the summer and he wasn't a teacher at my school no more&quot; (p. 163). &quot; <br /> *:[B: 12, M: 35] The man was a family friend; the sex was mutually initiated, oral, off and on for 10 years (a couple of times per month), and &quot;physically great.&quot; It confused the subject that the man was married, yet was willing to have sex with him. &quot;Eventually I fell in love with him; knew I was gay but did not broadcast this; I was curious because of the age difference. Mutual oral sex happened after he fondled me; it was the first orgasm I ever had.&quot; <br /> *:[B: 13, M: 38] &quot;Family friend. I initiated on a camping trip; we were in same tent at state park; oral sex to orgasm for both of us; several times during the night; incredibly erotic, tremendous release, very pleasurable. Not real close; didn't enjoy kissing. Afterwards scary because I enjoyed it so much. Not wanting to be near him on the trip because afraid others would notice. Once per month for the next 4 years that I initiated; never talked about it; sex was all it was. Wished I was straight so the attractions would go away, because the sexual gratification was so strong.&quot; <br /> *:[B: 14, M: 26] &quot;It was with a stranger; he initiated it; it involved oral and mutual masturbation, we did it 10 more times. I was excited, was loved and in love, got affection, but was not prepared for sex. It was not so l much that I wanted his affection; I was attracted to him. This relationship lasted a week then three months later we met again and we were sexual.&quot;<br /> <br /> *'''[[Bruce Rind]] - “The Problem with Consensus Morality”, ''Archives of Sexual Behavior,'' Vol. 31, No. 6, December 2002'''<br /> <br /> ::&quot;These are based on a sampling of interviews I recently conducted on individuals who learned about me from publicity surrounding my publications and contacted me to tell their stories. These cases, involving five men who had sex as boys around age 10 with men, dispute Schmidt’s claim that there can never be sexual consensus between prepubescents and adults. The cases are cross-national, coming from Australia, Canada, England, France, and the United States. The first three men are homosexual and the last two are heterosexual. All names have been altered to preserve confidentiality.<br /> <br /> :*Case 1. Nathan, a 45-year-old Brit, began being intensely curious about adult male genitalia when he was 8. At this age, in attempt to satisfy this curiosity, he surreptitiously went into the room of his household’s sleeping man servant and fondled him under his bed covers. By age 10, his curiosity had turned into sexual arousal. He unsuccessfully tried to solicit sex from men in locker rooms. At age 11, he met a neighbor man, whom he worked on over many visits in attempt to initiate sex. Eventually, he succeeded. In his many repeats with the man over the next 2 years, Nathan reported that he was the “conductor” - he controlled the sexual interactions. While still a boy, he had several other sexual relations with men, all of which he viewed as very positive. He thinks the sex helped his sexual self-confidence: as he matured, he knew exactly what he wanted in sex, while his peers were still searching.<br /> <br /> :*Case 2. James, a 23-year-old Canadian, first felt sexually aroused by other males at age 6 and had his first sex at 8 with a peer. At 11, he befriended a neighbor man, towhom he gave many signals, hoping for sex to occur. Eventually, it did, which made him feel proud and closer to the man. Over the next 3 years, he visited the man regularly, often secretly to avoid the possibility of his parents ending the relationship. He saw the relationship as very positive and said it built his personality (e.g., greater self-confidence) and influenced many of his tastes (e.g., an appreciation for literature).<br /> <br /> :*Case 3. Daniel, a 33-year-old Frenchman, was physically affectionate with his father starting at age 6. By 8, he became sexually attracted to him. At 10, he initiated sexual fondling with him, which the father accepted. In the sexual relationship, which lasted 4 years, Daniel always initiated the sex. In retrospect, he cherished the intimacy and described the relationship as &quot;beautiful, pure, security, confidence, and love.&quot; He said it built his sexual self-confidence.<br /> <br /> :*Case 4. At age 8, Dennis, a 21-year-old American, initiated sexual contact with a man friendly with his family, whom he suspected of being involved with his older brother. Sex occurred between them for the next 2 years. He said he usually initiated the encounters because he was always ready for sex. He described the relationship as the most positive he has ever had. He saw himself as having the upper hand, because he felt he had control over the man, who went to great lengths to fulfill his wishes. He felt that his adolescent and adult sexual relations went more smoothly because of the competence he got from these early experiences. Asked how a heterosexual male could have enjoyed homosexual relations, he answered that he was attracted to sex back then, not females or males per se.<br /> <br /> :*Case 5. John, a 22-year-old Australian, first realized his sexual arousal to girls at age 8. By 9, he felt lonely and was bullied by older boys, when he met a male neighbor in his late teens. They quickly became friends, and John spent a lot of time at his house. The young man eventually initiated masturbatory sex with him. John was at first apprehensive that others would find out, but became comfortable with the sex once he felt safe from this concern. The relationship lasted 3 years. He was proud to be seen with the older male, saw him as his protector, and saw the intimacy they had as the highlight of his life. Asked if the relationship was consenting, he said yes, because he wanted it, the young man wanted it, he loved the young man, so consent meant, &quot;Yes, do it.&quot;&quot;<br /> <br /> *'''[http://www.ipce.info/ipceweb/Library/01oct01c_my_father.htm My Father and I]'''<br /> *:Positive man-boy incest is interrupted by a mother. &quot;My father molested me from the time I was two till I was 15. We would lie naked and he would play with my penis. Then he would give me oral sex. When I was old enough I then started sucking him too. He never hurt me or tried to have anal sex with me, even though I wanted him to. I had anal sex with him, a few times, once my father decided my penis was big enough. My father and I would plan things around the times where we could meet and make each other feel good. My mother found out and two months ago my father was sent to prison. What my father did to me was not rape, at all. He never hurt me. In fact, I looked forward to spending the time with him but my mother and the police don't seem to listen.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.ipce.info/ipceweb/Library/00dec18c_a_professor_speaks.htm William Percy]'''<br /> *:Article &quot;UMASS professor advocates pederasty.&quot; William Armstrong Percy III says that when he was 14, he seduced a male soldier while traveling on a train. &quot;I never got enough sex with an older man. I don't see that I was harmed at all, except being deprived of not having more,&quot; said Percy. &quot;I was already the aggressor.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.ipce.info/library_3/files/tindall.htm The male adolescent involved with a pederast becomes an adult]'''<br /> *:Several accounts. &quot;During his 11th year he began spending his spare time around a service station, where he became acquainted with a master mechanic who was then in his early 40s, married, and childless. [...] On a fishing trip, during a break on an island, they began talking about sex, which led to Denver's being fellated by the mechanic and to masturbation of the mechanic by Denver. For the next 5 years mutual fellatio occurred two or three times per week. Sexual activity with the mechanic ceased at about age 19, but a close relationship continued to exist until the mechanic's death. Denver is now 44 years of age. [...] Denver remarried and has been a valued mechanic with the same company for 20 years. He has a supervisory position and believes that his relationship with his mechanic friend helped him reach his goals. He says he would have approved a similar relationship for either of his sons, had he become aware of such a situation. He reports no desire to have sex with males since approximately age 20.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/10/19/national/main2104978.shtml Mark Foley]'''<br /> *:Former American Republican, @13y/o. &quot;The Rev. Anthony Mercieca, 72, described several encounters that he said Foley might perceive as sexually inappropriate, the Sarasota Herald-Tribune reported. They include massaging Foley while the boy was naked, skinny-dipping together at a secluded lake in Lake Worth and being nude in the same room on overnight trips. &quot;Once maybe I touched him or so ... but I didn't, it's not something you call rape or penetration or anything like that,&quot; Mercieca told West Palm Beach station WPTV in a phone interview. &quot;He seemed to like it, you know? So it was sort of more like a spontaneous thing&quot;. Mercieca said.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://richarddawkins.net/article,118,Religionrsquos-Real-Child-Abuse,Richard-Dawkins Richard Dawkins]'''<br /> *:From an article of his, that despite not being exactly sex - positive, goes as far as is 'acceptable' in playing down the impact of nonviolent, situational fondling of children by priests, whilst attacking the religious dogmas that sometimes cause so much shame after such encounters. &quot;Being fondled by the Latin master in the Squash Court was a disagreeable sensation for a nine-year-old, a mixture of embarrassment and skin-crawling revulsion, but it was certainly not in the same league as being led to believe that I, or someone I knew, might go to everlasting fire. As soon as I could wriggle off his knee, I ran to tell my friends and we had a good laugh, our fellowship enhanced by the shared experience of the same sad pedophile. I do not believe that I, or they, suffered lasting, or even temporary damage from this disagreeable physical abuse of power. Given the Latin Master’s eventual suicide, maybe the damage was all on his side.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.ipce.info/ipceweb/Statements/factoids.htm Heinz Kohut]'''<br /> *:Strozier, quoting the Psychologist on his relationship as a child: &quot;I had this private tutor, who was a very important person in my life. He would take me to museums and swimming and concerts and we had endless intellectual conversations and played complicated intellectual games and played chess together&quot; They also did sexual things together, which they both enjoyed, but Kohut felt the sex was more or less incidental. The important thing for him was the relationship. He said &quot;I was an only child. So it was in some way psychologically life-saving for me. I was very fond of this fellow.&quot; Heinz was about 10 or 11 at the time. He describes his years with his tutor as being perhaps the happiest ones in his life.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://news.scotsman.com/farrightineurope/Fortuyn-favoured-depraved.2326187.jp Pim Fortuyn]'''<br /> *:Populist, anti - immigration, homosexual Politician from the Netherlands (deceased): &quot;Fortuyn's first experience occurred when he was five years old. &quot;The Dutch soldier asks if I want to see his tent. That's what I want. I like it and they all are sleeping on the ground in a sleeping-bag. I ask if it is hard and cold to sleep on the ground. Oh no, come here. Together we crawl in his sleeping-bag. The soldier asks my name and I ask his name. “He is called Arie and he asks if I like that name. Yes, I think that's a nice name and I lie beside him, nice and warm.&quot; Fortuyn then described a close sexual encounter with the soldier before leaving his sleeping-bag &quot;to go and play outside.&quot; He added: &quot;Can I come back tomorrow? Yes, tomorrow I may come back, says Arie.&quot; A few pages later, he describes another incident: &quot;I went to the park for a walk, it was very silent and the sun was shining. On the bench sat a young fellow. I stood still, curious.&quot; Fortuyn relates another sexual encounter - this time in explicit detail. He concludes: &quot;I was frightened and ran away to my home, to my mother. Excited, I ran into the room. My mother looked at me searchingly and asked what had happened. Nothing, of course. Watch out, little man, was the only thing she said. A glass of lemonade made me calm down. Yes, that was exciting.&quot; Most telling is his appraisal of these memories. &quot;In chapter 1 about the 1950s, I wrote about my early sexual experiences, experiences that I see as an enrichment. Today, an experience like that in the park could easily lead to a complaint by parents to the police because of paedophilia, and the relevant young man would be in trouble. But why? &quot;He didn't do me any harm. On the contrary, he showed me something that was incomprehensibly exciting and I could feel and touch it, but today we are ready to interfere with complete teams of professionals. By interfering in such an irritating and grown-up way in the world of children, we make an enormous problem of something that for a child is no problem at all and is only exciting.&quot;&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.mwillett.org/Debate/viewtopic.php?p=121929#121929 Todd Nickerson]'''<br /> *:A self-declared pedophile writes: &quot;I did have a single sexual encounter with an adult when I was a child, though I would hardly describe it as traumatic or even unpleasant. My memory of being touched—and that’s all it amounted to—is that it was, at most, a little confusing since I didn’t really understand what was taking place. Not that I really minded, though. In fact, after it occurred, I went immediately to a relative and bragged to her about it.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.boylover.net/ Boylover.net member on experiences as an 11-year-old boy]'''<br /> *:&quot;We piled back into the limo and it drove us to Toronto where we went to a stage play. I don’t remember what we saw because my head was still spinning about the fact that this attractive man, one who could have any female he wanted, was in love with me and was doing all this to make this night as special as he could. After the play, we headed for home. Limo drivers must have orders to ignore whatever they see going on in the back because ours got quite an eyeful. He was treated to the sight of an eleven-year-old boy and a nineteen-year-old man acting like boyfriends. We kissed, we petted, and we worked each other into an erotic frenzy, a frenzy for which there could only be one consummation.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.boylover.net/ Boylover.net member on intercourse]'''<br /> *:&quot;I was 10 and it was with an Adult Friend. I did not, nor do I now think I was abused. (well not by my AF anyway) I liked it. We only ever did the things I wanted to do.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.helping-people.info/Treatment/sot/offender.htm#3-6a_narrative_force Frans Gieles in an article of his]'''<br /> *:&quot;Craisatie (1998, among others page 117) describes a client who, as a child, had frequented a group, which in the book was called 'a child pornography ring'. As a child, he never had seen this as being abuse. Contrarily, he said that he'd gotten a lot of love, comradeship and care, which he did not get at home. Craisatie describes it as an example of successful treatment that his client ultimately abandoned his feeling of being loved and changed it into the feeling of being abused although this occurred only gradually and very late in the treatment process [...] Ehrenreich (2004) describes a man who for nineteen years was held in a closed clinic. He denied his offense, thus refused to speak about it, thus he did not cooperate, thus year after year his stay was renewed. Then, he changed tack: he 'acknowledged' his offense, he spoke about it, he did exactly what the therapists ordered, and said that he benefited from their treatment. This was the only way to be released. The man has been released. Then it turned out that his accusers had lied about everything they had said, under high pressure of the police: there never had been an offense.&quot;<br /> *'''Boy in Dan Tsang (1981)''', &quot;The age taboo&quot;. London: Gay Men's Press. <br /> *:&quot;It's often not the man who goes out to seduce the boy, but the other way round. In my first experience, I did the seducing. . . . It is mostly the boys who go out in search of sexual satisfaction from men...&quot;<br /> *'''[http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=bta8oOuDtoI (Man?) on YouTube]'''<br /> *:An extremely detailed account that was hindered by a voice concealer. Person had a positive relationship as youngster, and has met pedophiles.<br /> *'''[http://www.sunstar.com.ph/static/net/2007/10/19/orphans.admit.clown.fondled.them.html Carlock the Clown]'''<br /> *:Some young children pleaded with authorities not to press charges against a clown who played with them sexually. &quot;Surprisingly though, when asked by American embassy officials if they wanted their &quot;Kuya Paul&quot; charged in court for abusing them, all the three kids pleaded with the officials not to file a case against Carlock. &quot;Please don't file a case against Kuya Paul. He is a good man, he is a good man,&quot; the kids said. &quot;The kids told me that they loved the man so much because he was so good to them. They said they treated the man as their father. Paul gave them candies, lollipops,&quot; Karasuyama said.&quot; The clown was eventually [http://illinoishomepage.net/content/fulltext/?cid=9747 tasered and killed by police].<br /> *'''[http://terrygeorge.co.uk/home/?topic=440 Terry George on &quot;phone sex&quot; with Michael Jackson]'''<br /> *:According to George, Michael Jackson engaged him in &quot;phone sex&quot; at the age of 13: &quot;I do not feel like a victim and I never did feel like a victim,&quot; he said. See [http://terrygeorge.co.uk/home/?folder=13 directory] for other articles.<br /> *'''[http://www.freetimes.com/stories/13/43/confessions-of-a-proud-pedophile-phillip-distasio-says-getting-caught-was-all-part-of-his-plan Phillip Distasio]'''<br /> *:Imprisoned for life; a proud pedophile activist who had a relationship with an older man at 12. &quot;Distasio describes himself as a second-generation pedophile: at the age of 12, he began a relationship with an older man, a swimming instructor named Charlie, at a boys' club in Massachusetts. He says he's known about his proclivity since age 9. &quot;To me,&quot; he says, “it is as valid as any other sexual orientation.&quot;&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.broadbandreports.com/shownews/Cleaning-Up-Tor-82218 &quot;Jay78&quot; commenting on broadbandreports.com]'''<br /> *:&quot;Also, when I was about 6 years of age I was sexually &quot;used&quot; without coercion by an adult family member in ways that today would have put that person in prison. I almost forgot about that seemingly anecdotal incident and memory until I was reminded of it by the current hysteria over that kind of thing. Compared with the other things I experienced, that was not even worth thinking of, I would never hurt that person who did that and have a good relationship with that person today.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.ipce.info/library_3/files/rivas_howard_miller.htm &quot;Howard Miller&quot; as told to Titus Rivas, Ipce]'''<br /> *:&quot;We would zip our sleeping bags together and he would tickle and massage me all over. He would tell me dirty jokes while helping me with my homework and get me aroused. Then we would masturbate together. He satisfied me and then himself or we satisfied ourselves while watching each other. I thought that he was fascinating to look at and occasionally touch but not to satisfy. [...] I have only good feelings about what happened but am sad that most people will never be able to understand that. I also wish that we didn't have to worry about each other getting into trouble with the society over what happened. [...] Because I had such a positive experience as a child I believe that I can say with absolute certainty that sometimes such relationships can be very positive. Notice I don't say that they always will be, but heck more than 50% of marriages end in divorce. Most real child abuse occurs in families. Should then marriage be outlawed?&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.boylover.net/info/scrapbook/kolya_03.html Loren Robb and Kolya - Bulletin]'''<br /> *:A man tells of his loving relationship with a young native Arctic boy who he brought up in New Zealand.<br /> *'''[http://youfoundme.org/mylife.html My Life - Youfoundme.org]'''<br /> *:A very long testimony written by a person known to a contact of Newgon.com. &quot;It was the end of that summer that I learned what real heartache felt like. Sex was never the dominating factor in my relationship with James. I wanted to fool around a lot more than he did but I just liked being with him. He knew so much about construction and getting things to work that it was like being at school all the time except it was fun. Like any kid who hears his dad tell the same joke all the time I got tired of hearing &quot;plumbings easy boy, just remember shit flows down hill&quot;. What I really didn't want to hear was the day James told me we couldn't do the sex thing anymore. I don't recall his exact words but something to the effect &quot;this just isn't right or this isn't normal&quot;. I was crushed. It (our friendship) seemed so normal and great to me that I didn't understand why he felt that way. My suffering didn't come from the hands of an abuser, my suffer came from the words of a man who feared for my wellbeing. I kept telling him I was okay with things and nothing needed to change. Change did come and even my begging wouldn't get him to monkey around with me. It happened once or twice after the big talk but it was never the same.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2372/is_4_41/ai_n9488757/pg_1 Jessica L. Stanley (Researcher)]'''<br /> *:&quot;One man, at 14 years old, researched the location of gay bars and met a man with whom he had a few sexual encounters and with whom he has maintained a friendship for nearly 20 years.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2372/is_3_39/ai_94130312 Curtis Dolezal (Researcher)]'''<br /> *:&quot;participant was 10 when he had sexual contact on 20 occasions over 3 months with a 25-year-old male neighbor. The events involved mutual masturbation and oral sex. The participant did not feel coerced or hurt and did not feel it was sexual abuse &quot;because I seduced the neighbor.&quot;<br /> *'''[[Paedophilia: The radical case|O'Carroll 1980, p.83-84]]'''<br /> *:&quot;As a boy he became sexually mature at age twelve-and-a-half. &quot;It was like the world was beginning to make sense, to take on purpose and meaning. [...] I regard my meeting with Mr. S., then aged twenty-six, as a critical turning point in my love life. Until then, sex was fun, felt good and left me only moderately guilty. Once I approached Mr.S. (Yes, I approached him) with my thirteen-year-old impatience for intimacy, he told no one, responded positively to my shaky advances (didn't even laught at me!) and simply embraced me. [...] Here was a masculine adult man (happily married even), who was interested in doing with me what I was already finding exciting with my boy-friends. And through this relationship a new dimension was added to my experience which has not occurred to me before - tenderness, affection and love. (...) This affection was, in its way, just as satisfying as the ecstatic orgasms that punctuated our days and nights together. I regard this man, this relationship as a turning point because I was never the same after knowing him for two years - I was more in tune with myself after that...&quot;.<br /> *'''[[Sex met kinderen]], pages 75-76. (Untranslated - [[Frits Bernard]])'''<br /> *:A 25 year old man tells of a relationship struck up with a gay man when he was eight. They started having sex when he was ten, something that he enjoyed. The relationship lasts until he is 18.<br /> *'''&quot;En me vriendje houdt van mij: 23 verhalen uit het leven gegrepen&quot;, edited by Ben Füss and Gorrit Goslinga (Eindhoven: Stichting Uitgeverij NVSH, 1981)'''<br /> *:&quot;We had just moved and that was how I met a nice man, as a 13-year-old. We talked a lot, in his room. He was very interested in art and possessed a lot of books with pictures of works of art and sculpture. I had little interest for this but did not want to hurt Dick's feelings. Only the pictures that showed nudity captured my interest. I also tried to hide this. [...]&quot; This interest was noticed by Dick and it led to Dick briefly caressing the boy's genitals. Dick was very cautious and tried to end it immediately. The boy was very eager to have additional sexual experiences and finally persuaded Dick to allow him a visit. One thing led to another and the end result was a tender sexual relationship that lasted for about six years. After the war he re-established a life-long friendship with Dick, though without the sexual aspect. He was there when Dick died at age 83. He adds: &quot;The value of this relationship is something I continue to cherish till this very day.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/15/science/15gajdusek.html &quot;D. Carleton Gajdusek, Who Won Nobel for Work on Brain Disease, Is Dead at 85&quot;]'''<br /> *:&quot;D. Carleton Gajdusek, a virologist who won the 1976 Nobel Prize in medicine for his work on the mysterious epidemics now known as prion diseases, died last week in Tromso, Norway. [...] In later life, Dr. Gajdusek became notorious when he was charged with molesting the many young boys he had adopted in New Guinea and Micronesia and brought to live with him in Maryland. He pleaded guilty to one charge, served a year in prison and left the United States in 1998, dividing his time between Paris, Amsterdam and Tromso. [...] He also remained unrepentant about the sexual relationships with his adopted sons, Dr. Klitzman said. He considered American law prudish and pointed out that sex with young men was normal in the cultures he studied and in the classic Greek societies at the foundation of Western civilization. His legal assistant, Dorrie Runman, who was previously married to one of his sons, John Runman, said Dr. Gajdusek’s survivors included “his adopted sons and daughters, including Yavine Borimaand Jesse Mororui-Gajdusek in the United States, and two nephews, Karl Lawrence Gajdusek and Mark Terry.” His children were legally adopted, Ms. Runman said. He put several through college and graduate or medical school. Some of them, now in their 50s, supported him during his legal troubles, while one sibling testified against him.&quot;<br /> <br /> *'''[http://www.jungsforum.net/politik/messages/159581.htm Anon, in Berliner Zeitung (Translation)]'''<br /> *:&quot;Being 52 now, I got a relationship with a man at the age of 8-9 of whom I was told later that he was a paedophile. The relationship went on until I was about 14 years old and we were lucky that it remained undiscovered and free of police enquiries. Even today, so many years later, I remember my big friend with gratitude, as he made my coming out as a gay person later on – and many other things in my life - a lot easier for me. Since then, I have met numerous people who also had [consensual] sexual relationships with adults as children and teenagers and who are not ashamed of this. It is easy to understand why such people never get in touch with abuse counseling agencies, because they really don't need such help. That's how such centres get a completely one-sided view of so-called victims of abuse.&quot;.<br /> <br /> *'''''Paedophilia - What It Means To The Child'' by [[Frits Bernard]], printed in [http://exitinterview.biz/rarities/panfull.htm PAN 3] (pp. 15 - 17)'''<br /> **&quot;I was about 13 when I had my first paedophile experience. [...] The man who brought me into touch with homosexuality and whom I even loved physically was, and still is, one of my dearest friends. I remember what a wonderful feeling it was when he satisfied me for the first time. I was not troubled in the least by worries over having done 'perverted things', probably because I had no idea of what such things were. [...] The only trouble I have had over this was when I first told my fiancée about it.&quot;<br /> **&quot;When I was seven I had contact with a man who was especially nice to me. He used to take me to his attic, sit me on his lap and play with me sexually. I thought it was very nice and enjoyed it. I always looked forward to Wednesday afternoons, the days when we saw each other. This went on for a long time. Later I had many contacts with other men, but never with boys my own age. One day I went with a waiter to his house. I was very interested and excited. We had unusually satisfying sex together. I must have been about 14. Back home I was restless and went to see him the very next day on my own initiative. We had intercourse about twenty times in the following period. [...] Now, after a good life, I can see these early contacts as very positive to my development. I would not like to have missed them and I do not envy the people who never had these opportunities.&quot;<br /> **&quot;When I was about eight years old I got to know a man in the street who thought I played very nicely. He invited me out for a bicycle ride, and later to visit his home. [...] From him I received love, which actually I had never known (not, I mean, in the way I know it at present from my wife). [...] Later, when I was ten or eleven, we had sex with each other, something I always enjoyed.&quot;<br /> **Several further accounts involving slightly older minors are available in the article.<br /> <br /> *'''Zimmerman, Ann (1994). &quot;[http://www.dallasobserver.com/1994-11-17/news/tell-mama-why-you-cry-part-i/5 'Tell Mama Why You Cry' (Part I)],&quot; ''Dallas Observer'', November 17.'''<br /> *:&quot;The tape of Tim's interview could not be located, but according to Black's notes, Tim had seen his father touch his sister on her private parts on several occasions. &quot;He stated his father tickles Lima on her private parts and she likes it. When questioned further, Tim revealed his father also touches him on his private parts...at his house...Tim stated he doesn't mind his father doing this.&quot;<br /> <br /> *'''[[Terry Leahy]]: Positively Experienced Man/Boy Sex : The Discourse of Seduction and the Social Construction of Masculinity, ''Australian and New Zealand Journal of Sociology'' 28,1 (1992) pp. 71-88.'''<br /> *:A study of eight people who perceived their childhood (under 16) contacts with adults positively.<br /> *:&quot;Derek describes his first sexual encounter with a man in the following way. He is at the park at six o’clock on the swing. A man rushes towards him and begins to strip off:<br /> *::I just sat there looking. I didn’t know what to do but sort of thrilling. I looked, gawked, sort of ... I didn’t mind, I just kept on swinging on the swing. And I wasn’t scared or anything and he just come up to me and said ’Oh, how are ya?’ and I said ’Oh, not too bad’. In other words, coming on to me. And he turned around and said, ’Oh, what’s your name?’ And I’d tell him my name ’cause I wasn’t scared or anything because it was in a park and it was about six o’clock, really early, six, you know what I mean. And he just said, ’Would you like a drink?’ and I said ’No’. Then I started getting a bit nervy, nervous sort of thing. I knew, I must ... I knew in a way that he’d do something. So I just sat there, you know, and he said, ’Oh, would you like to come for a drive?’ Well I rushed him! So I just went for a drive with him and there we got off. First time, we got off ... I wanted to try it out. So I tried it. It was a really good feeling. Ever since then I kept on going.<br /> *:Here the narrative of this event begins with Derek sitting innocently on the swing. A man appears with obvious sexual intentions. Derek is instantly thrilled and takes voyeuristic pleasure in seeing him undress. He is not scared to go with the man and in fact ’rushes’ him. The sex is great and he has an orgasm. Even anal sex, though a bit uncomfortable at first, is enjoyed. All this has happened because he wanted to try it out and having done so he is eager to repeat the experience. This is typical of the discourse of male adolescent sexuality - spontaneous, adventurous, sexual pleasure is guaranteed, and casual contact is exciting. Derek presents himself as an active and initiating party. The events that take place are in reponse to his emerging self constituted sexual desire. All this works against any interpretation of Derek as a victim of homosexual seduction. Summarising his attitude to these sexual encounters on another occasion he concludes:<br /> *::I mean to say, sex is sex, you gotta, you know, well ... The way I feel, what would you do without it? It’s just something normal. Sex is just normal for everybody. Not just for me, for everybody and to do without ... I reckon it would be pretty hard to do without it so you’re just going to have to think.<br /> *:[...]<br /> *:Christopher’s interview provides a thorough discussion of these issues. At the time when he was interviewed he was in his mid thirties. His relationship with an adult gay man, George, began when he was about nine years old and lasted till he was eighteen. In a wry comment on the discourse of seduction he offered this remark:<br /> *::So I suppose then, you want to know now if I’m fucked up now sexually because of this terrible trauma of my childhood? Well - no. Umm. My main thrust - pun! - is heterosexual but ahh, I still occasionally sleep with males but when I say occasionally I mean very occasionally.<br /> *:[...]<br /> *:In particular, in discussing the various sexual activities in which he was engaged, Christopher stresses the physical pleasures of various acts and argues that his initial reservations about particular practices (oral sex, anal sex) were broken down as he received physical pleasure from these activities and came to feel that it was only fair to reciprocate.&quot;<br /> <br /> *'''[[Frits Bernard|Bernard, F.]] (1979). &quot;[http://exitinterview.biz/rarities/pan/htmfiles/pan3p13.htm Paedophilia: What it means to the child]&quot; ''[[PAN]]'', November 1979.'''<br /> <br /> :*A heterosexual male recalls at age 24: &quot;I had my first sexual contact with an older man in Rotterdam... It was nothing more than each of us quickly masturbating each other, looking shyly around us. Once this corner was turned a lot of other experiences followed. I can't say much about them, just sex and nothing more. One of the reasons nothing lasted was that the men were dead scared of being trapped. The iniative always came from me. I used to wear my shortest and cutest shorts and stroll across the market squares and through the busiest streets of Rotterdam until I saw someone I thought was 'like that' and then I allowed myself to be 'seduced'. That went on until I was 17. [...] I have no regrets about this period. I am only sorry that I never had what I was really looking for: an older friend with whom I could enjoy not only sex but all kinds of things, someone who could teach me about everything.&quot;<br /> <br /> :*An engaged, heterosexual male recalls at age 23: &quot;I was about 13 when I had my first paedophile experience (...) The man who brought me into touch with homosexuality and whom I even loved physically was, and still is, one of my dearest friends. I remember what a wonderful feeling it was when he satisfied me for the first time.&quot; Despite this, the man makes it clear that he does not approve of pedophilic contact, as it happens today.<br /> <br /> :*A heterosexual adult recalls at age 37: &quot;I must have been 14 [or] 15 at the time of my first sexual encounter with a man of about 30. I enjoyed these experiences. (...) I am now married and have four children. People with this inclination should fit into society and our society should accept this as natural. But it will be a very long time before this happens. (...) My earlier contacts of this kind were so upsetting to my parents that, at the time, I always had the feeling that I was dong something wrong. Now I see it as part of a personal experience which I would not like to see removed from my life.&quot;<br /> <br /> :*A gay man recalls at 67, the following contact with a 35-year-old man: &quot;When I was 7, I had contact with a man who was especially nice to me. He used to take me to his attic, had me sit on his lap and we had sexual contact with each other. I really found it pleasant and enjoyed it. I was always looking forward to Wednesday afternoons, the days we saw each other. This went on for a long period of time. [...] Now, as a nearly 68-year-old man, who has had a good life, I regard these contacts I used to have as very positive for my development. I would not have wanted to miss them, and I do not envy people who have never not had these opportunities. [...] Later I had many contacts with other men, but never with boys my own age. One day I went with a waiter to his house. I was very interested and excited. We had unusually satisfying sex together. I must have been about 14. Back home I was restless and went to see him the very next day on my own initiative. We had intercourse about twenty times in the following period.&quot;<br /> <br /> :*A straight man recalls at 25, the following relationship: &quot;When I was about eight years old I got to know a man in the street who thought I played very nicely. He invited me out for a bicycle ride, and later to visit his home (...) Gradually, we got to know each other... and I came to realise that he was homosexual. This did not shock me; I just wanted to know more about it. (...) From him I received love, which actually I had never known (...) Later, when I was ten or eleven, we had sex with each other, some-thing I always enjoyed. That lasted until I was eighteen, when I started going steady with a girl. When I became engaged I was able to tell my future wife with an easy mind about my youthful experiences. She could appreciate the whole thing very well. [We have] an especially good marriage, an especially fine sexual relationship, and an especially dear little daughter.&quot;<br /> <br /> *'''Wolf Vogel (author) ''[http://www.ipce.info/host/rivas/boys_men/bjorn.htm Heimliche Liebe: Eros zwischen Knabe und Mann]'', 1997. Translator writes of the following translation: &quot;includes the remarkable case of Björn and Jan, located in a major town in the North of Germany.&quot;'''<br /> <br /> :*&quot;When Björn (32) was a young boy, he met his adult friend Jan (45) and they still had a sexual relationship at the time of the interview. As a 10-year-old boy, Björn felt attracted to social worker Jan because of the latter's revolutionary ideas and Björn tried to provoke him with a lot of questions and remarks about sexuality. One day, when Björn was eleven and a half, they happened to meet near the town's riverbank. Björn tried to get Jan sexually interested in him and when they met at Jan's place he finally succeeded. Björn really wanted Jan to penetrate him, but Jan declined the offer and it took Björn a year to convince him that he was not afraid of getting physically hurt in the process. The boy really enjoyed this type of penetrative sexual contact and now that he's an adult, he's still doing it quite often with Jan. He remarks that if one wishes to speak of seduction in this relationship, it was him who was the seducing party. Their relationship has always stayed a secret for the people in their environment. Jan used to help Björn with the problems he was having with his parents, and also with his educational and professional progress.&quot;<br /> <br /> *'''Seth Mydans (author) ''[http://www.nytimes.com/1989/02/05/world/in-a-philippine-town-child-prostitution-despite-protests-is-a-way-of-life.html In a Philippine Town, Child Prostitution, Despite Protests, Is a Way of Life]'', 1989.'''<br /> <br /> :*&quot;Drive into this green and quiet town [Pangsanjan, Philippines] 40 miles southeast of Manila and groups of men will run alongside your car, banging on the windows, offering a choice of the local attractions: A boat ride to the scenic waterfall or a child prostitute. (...) When Mrs. Zaide's group, the Council of Citizens for the Protection of Children, pasted up posters warning against prostitution, the citizens of Pagsanjan tore them down. Stones were thrown at the houses of council members. When the Immigration Commission a year ago arrested 22 foreigners who were engaged in prostitution rings, some parents, the recipients of their largesse, testified in their defense. (...) Estafania Aldaba-Lim, a former minister of social welfare who has studied the Pagsanjan situation, said local residents discovered the easy money in male prostitution when American filmmakers came to town to shoot scenes for &quot;Apocalypse Now.&quot; &quot;I suppose some gays with the crew fell in love with the young macho boatmen,'&quot; she said, &quot;and then it went to much younger boys, down to 9, 10, 11 years old, and the whole town got in on it.&quot; (...) But, Miss Zaide said child prostitution continues. One Swiss national, she said, married the sister of his 15-year-old male lover and has applied to return home not with his wife but with his new brother-in-law. &quot;The family is proud of it,&quot; Miss Zaide said. It flaunts his gifts, which include one of the better residences in town. '''At school, according to another member of Miss Zaide's group, children proudly display the new clothes, pocket money and other gifts that they receive from their patrons, tempting other children to follow their example.''' [emphasis ours] One Third of Boys Are Involved. Miss Zaide estimated that one-third of the youngsters have taken part in the sex trade in this town of 22,000, where 65 percent of the population is below the age of 18. When teachers confront the parents of these children, she said, the parents ask them, &quot;What can you give us in exchange? Can you pay for my child's schooling? Can you give him an allowance? Can you build a home for us?&quot;&quot;<br /> <br /> *'''&quot;Neil&quot; in Birkett, D. ''[http://www.deabirkett.com/pages/journalism_film/film/monsters_with_human_faces.htm The Devil Amongst Us - accompanying article]'', 1997.'''<br /> <br /> :*&quot;During my research I met Neil, a gay man now aged 40, who enjoyed having sex with adult men from the age of nine. &quot;It seems to be politically correct, even within the gay movement, to be anti-paedophile. But when I ask gay male friends when they first had sex they say, 'Oh, ten, 11, 12, with a bloke down the road who was 22.' He was probably a paedophile!&quot;&quot;<br /> <br /> *'''&quot;Dan&quot; in Newberger, Eli H., ''Bringing Up a Boy'' (Perseus Books, 1999)<br /> :This is a general guide for parents. From the section on gay adolescents comes this:<br /> :&quot;In ninth grade, Dan began sexual activity with men, some in their twenties, others in their thirties or older. He meets many of them in gay clubs. He also feels confident initiating contact with strangers in public, in stores, for example. He is diligent about safe sex and careful not to make himself vulnerable to sexual exploitation by drinking too much, but he has a considerable number of sexual contacts during a year.&quot; <br /> <br /> [[Category:Official Encyclopedia]][[Category:Testimony]][[Category:Testimony: Contact]]<br /> <br /> [[fr:Témoignages: Adulte mâle avec mineur mâle]]</div>

StephenJames http://newgon77idcem62vqlfge3jkidjenvf6afhxwr2napk4kpp2labjbdid.onion/wiki/index.php?title=Testimony:_Adult_Male_with_Minor_Male&diff=5867 2009-09-17T10:42:23Z

<p>StephenJames: </p> <hr /> <div>{{Template:A&amp;T}}<br /> *'''[http://dir.salon.com/story/mwt/feature/2002/07/22/coming_of_age/ Minor report] by David Tuller in Salon.com, July 22, 2002.'''<br /> **An aircraft maintenance worker describes his first experience at thirteen with a man of about 30 who had hired him to do yard work. After inviting him inside and showing him pictures of men wrestling, the man “started rubbing my crotch, and I was both nervous and really excited by it.” He went on to seek out other significantly older men. “I never felt used. I really wanted it, and except for the first time I always felt like the aggressor.” <br /> **Noted gay novelist Edmund White talks about picking up men at Chicago beaches and public restrooms from the age of 13 or 14. “I was very oversexed, absolutely driven wild by desire. ... The first one was a handsome architect, who actually had children older than me. I was absolutely fascinated by him, and I seduced him. I followed him to his car, walked right up to him and started talking to him. My mother was away and I said, ‘Come back to my apartment.’ And it was terrific.” <br /> ** In an essay about sex between adolescents and adults, David Tuller relates his own desire as a 15-year-old &quot;tormented homosexual wannabe.&quot; Upon seeing the movie Summer of '42, in which a young widow &quot;pulls Hermie into her arms and, in her grief, into her bed,&quot; he says, &quot;I cried while I watched, ... because I so yearned for the tender moments that Hermie found.&quot; <br /> **A gay health care professional in his 50s discusses how the relationship he pursued with a family friend in his early 20s helped him learn at the age of fifteen that men could care for each other. &quot;It was clear that it certainly felt good to both of us. ... In some way it was a real lifesaver, because it made me feel that love and affection and closeness and sex would be possible in my life. ... when we were together, it was like a little oasis where we could be ourselves.&quot; <br /> ** A businessman in Denver recounts his two-year relationship, from age fifteen, with his 29-year-old boss at the restaurant where he worked. &quot;It was frightening and invigorating and I felt clumsy and awkward. But he was playful and fun and very gentle. I never felt coerced. As foreign as it was to me I was very open to it. Afterwards, I felt good, like I'd experienced something I'd wanted to for a long time.&quot; Speaking of how it affected his life at the time, he says, &quot;I wasn't an awkward, out-of-place kid anymore. I felt appreciated for being gay, instead of being an outcast and made fun of. Suddenly I had this new self-confidence. I didn't have to hate myself for being gay.&quot; <br /> *'''[http://www.boychat.org/messages/932440.htm A long and varied career by Ambar] on BoyChat, July 2005.'''<br /> *:A man recounts his earliest sexual experiences, including with his best friend’s father at eight years old: “He became my second very, very, very best friend and so began a wonderful, loving relationship. I still adore that man :-)” <br /> *'''[http://newgon.com/CPP/HFP-072.htm Letter from John] in HFP Mailbag and [http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/13023005/ Sexual Abuse from a Victim] by John Tate, December 7, 2004.'''<br /> *:A 17-year-old reports on the anguish in his life stemming from sexual activity with his grandfather from age seven and attributes the worst aspects to society’s attitudes about it: “I think if this sort of thing was tolerated I would not have felt so fucking alienated, so hated, as a child, I would have not been an outcast.” <br /> *'''[http://www.boychat.org/messages/932397.htm count me IN !!! :))] by siao on BoyChat, July 2005. '''<br /> *:A man recounts his first experience of sex with an adult at seven years old: “suddenly fun was &quot;in&quot; … gosh, what was that twirling feeling which went all thru me ???” He also speaks of such encounters with many other men, saying, “NOT A SINGLE ONE EVER ABUSED ME ! I was free to say 'YES!!!!' and also knew how to say 'no' if there were ever anything I might not want.” <br /> *'''[http://www.bostonmagazine.com/articles/boy_crazy/ Boy Crazy] in Boston Magazine, May 2001'''<br /> **Famous poet Allen Ginsberg commented on the 1977 pedophilia scandal in Revere, Massachusetts, &quot;I had sex when I was 8 with a man in the back of my grandfather’s candy store in Revere, and I turned out okay.&quot; <br /> **Best-selling Canadian author James Dubro was 14 in 1961 when he started having sex with a 22-year-old college student who remains his friend 40 years later. <br /> *'''[http://newgon.com/CPP/BC-146796.htm My Story: A story of a boy] by Elf on BoyChat, October 1998.'''<br /> *:A man in his mid-20s tells his story. When he was nine or ten years old, he responded willingly to the seduction of a 16- or 17-year-old neighbor boy. They had a passionate love affair for over a year until they were discovered and his father beat him savagely. The older boy’s family disappeared from town. This man wrote of that affair as the best thing that ever happened to him and attributed his deep problems at the time of writing to the brutal way it was torn away from him. <br /> *'''&quot;[http://newgon.com/CPP/Spike/xaboutme.htm Spike]&quot; on his website'''<br /> *:A 15-year-old boy writes about his adult lover: “When I was 10, I found myself a mentor, a wonderful old man that needed me as much as I needed him. … J has been the best thing that could ever have happened to me. Everything I am today I owe to J. He and Mom are both educated people who believe that I must prepare myself for adulthood by learning how to learn, how to think for myself, and how to believe in myself … Mom sees the results of my association with J, and she could not be more pleased.” <br /> *'''[http://newgon.com/CPP/Hoby-mod.htm Hoby] on his website'''<br /> *:A boy proclaims his interest in adult men and says, “You should be able to love whoever you want when you want and as long as you both happy it dont matter what anyone else thinks.” <br /> *'''''[http://newgon.com/CPP/Arlekin/complain-mod.htm My Complaints]'' by David Alejandro, December 1996, on his website.'''<br /> *:A 13-year-old boy makes an impassioned plea for sexual freedom: “I want to love and be loved by whom I want. For the last two years I have an older friend. I am not gay, I like girls. He doesn’t, but we understand each other very well. It is nobody’s business what we do or don’t do. … Stop protecting me, please!” (Note: His site history page indicated that he was 13 when he posted this page and 15½ in June 1999. The English index pages said that he lived in the “Land of the Incas.”)<br /> *'''[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voor_een_verloren_soldaat Voor Een Verloren Soldaat] (For A Lost Soldier), autobiographical novel by Rudi van Dantzig, 1986 and 1992 movie made from it'''<br /> *:Acclaimed ballet dancer and choreographer Rudi van Dantzig tells the story of his brief romance at twelve with a Canadian soldier at the end of World War II. <br /> *'''[http://newgon.com/CPP/Stefan/index.htm Stefan] on his web page'''<br /> *:A 12-year-old in Holland says, “I will tell you about my BEST friend. He’s 28 and works at home. I love him the most in the world and he loves me. He says I’m the cutest boy in the world.” <br /> *'''[http://www.scottohara.com/obit.htm Scott O'Hara], quoted in his obituary at the Spirit of Stonewall Press Conference, New York City, June 24, 1994.'''<br /> *:The publisher of Steam magazine says, “When I was 12 and 13 years old I would have joined NAMBLA in a minute, because I knew I was gay and I wanted to go out and get laid, not just read The Gay Mystique all my life; I needed personal contact.” <br /> *'''Ik Wilde Meer! (“[http://www.martijn.org/info/Martijn/martijn02.pdf I Want More!]”) in Martijn (PDF, 6 Mb), December 1980, page 16-18, in Dutch.'''<br /> *:A married man reports on his 6-year-long relationship with a man who showed him erotic art and masturbated him. The relationship later turned platonic and the younger man was at the older’s deathbed 37 years later. <br /> *'''[http://www.boylover.net/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/10/194.html tribute to frank] by mick15 on BoyLover.net, December 7, 2005.'''<br /> *:A teenaged boy describes his loving, sexual relationship with his soccer mentor, who had recently died. <br /> *'''I want to speak out!!!!!!!! by “15 yr old boy” on BoyChat, September 2000.'''<br /> *:A 15-year-old boy writes about his adult lover: “He is the best thing that has ever happened to me. … I wish this world would just open its eyes and see that relationships like this are healthy and good for boys my age—but yes only if the boy wants the relationship.” <br /> *'''[http://newgon.com/CPP/Adam-mod.htm There is Magic Out There] by Joshua Adam on his website.'''<br /> *:A 13-year-old in the 10th grade writes about the emotional support he gets from his older friend, Angel, who is helping him overcome the hatred cast upon him by his family and school for liking other boys. Angel and Adam have never met in person and do not plan to do so. Their relationship is entirely nonsexual, although it is definitely one of love and mentorship.<br /> *'''Author [http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1588180395 Kirk Read]'''<br /> *: In his 2001 book, How I Learned to Snap, Kirk Read tells of his sexual experiences with adults starting at age 13, which he says saved his life. &quot;Intergenerational sex saved my life&quot;, &quot;American culture's only frame of reference for sex with minors is abuse. I don't deny that abuse occurs, but this should be addressed on a case-by-case basis. A blanket approach that criminalizes all sex between adults and minors undermines the fact that for many gay teenagers, sex with an adult can be a beautiful, life-changing experience. It was for me&quot;, &quot;I sought out sex with older men time and time again as a teenager. I had fumbling sexual encounters with other kids as a preadolescent, but they always left me unsatisfied. None of us knew what we were doing, and our shame and fear overwhelmed any joy of discovery&quot; (pp.57-59) [http://www.nambla.org/snap.htm Reviewed] by NAMbLA.<br /> <br /> *'''[http://newgon.com/CPP/Shane-mod.htm Shane] on his website'''<br /> *:A 14-year-old gay boy in Australia says, “I have one really good adult friend that knows about my sexuality, … Steve has never tried anything sexual with me, although I often wish he would.” <br /> *'''[http://www.boychat.org/messages/932399.htm Under My House . Tent Sleeping . Neighbors Bedroom] by Linca on BoyChat, July 2005. '''<br /> *:A man recounts his first experiences of sex, including with an adult neighbor at 14: “[He] did with me … what he had been wanting to do with me since I was 8 years old. We are friends to this day.” <br /> *'''Two posts by hyacinth on BoyChat: [http://newgon.com/CPP/BC-663921.htm May 2002] [1] and [http://www.boychat.org/messages/932570.htm July 2005] [2]'''<br /> *:A man describes his childhood sexual experiences with adults. The first was anal sex with a benedictine monk at 14 years old: “I was't stupid, at 14 I knew my way around … He was very nice and very gentle, and I liked him alot.” [1] Next was a relationship that lasted for a year and a half with a man and his two sons. [2] <br /> *'''[http://newgon.com/CPP/Benjamin-LettersOfBoy.htm Letters of a Loving Boy--Excerpted letters and diaries of boys], edited by Jarod Benjamin, 1997.'''<br /> *:A 14-year-old boy wrote a series of love letters, unsuccessfully courting an adult friend for a more intimate relationship. <br /> *'''[http://newgon.com/CPP/Mogenic-LikeGreece.htm Just Like Greece? — Gay Teen Dates Septuagenarian], an interview of “:John ”: by Brandon K. Thorp in ''Mogenic'', June 2006.'''<br /> *:A 22-year-old man talks about the 67-year-old man he met at the museum where they were both volunteering when he was 13. A friendship emerged based on unusually common interests for such a pair. The relationship evolved into mentoring and eventually romance, which became sexual two years later. They remained occasionally intimate for five years while the teenager also began to explore relationships with his age peers. Looking back on the man’s death when he was 20, he says, “He enhanced the quality of my youth, and his influence will likely enhance the quality of my entire adult life. And I enhanced his old age. We both got something out of it.” <br /> *'''[http://newgon.com/CPP/Aaron/index.htm Aaron], on his website'''<br /> *:A 15-year-old boy talks about his adult lover on his website. <br /> *'''[http://www.nambla.org/boys.htm Boys Speak Out on Man/Boy Love], NAMBLA, 1981.'''<br /> *:NAMBLA published a book with first-person accounts of 29 boys about their relationships with older men. Titles include ''The Best Thing That Ever Happened to Me'' by Greg, 16, ''It Shouldn’t Be a Crime to Make Love'' by Bryan, 12, ''If It Wasn’t for Mark I’d Probably Be Dead Today'' by Carl, 14, ''I Need My Lovers'' by Tyrone, 16, and ''It Was Me Who Started It'' by Frank, 15. <br /> *'''The perspective of a loving boy in [http://newgon.com/CPP/Benjamin-BoysAndBoylovers.htm On Boys and Boylovers] by Jarod Benjamin, 1997.'''<br /> *:Jarod Benjamin’s 1997 study of male-male pedophilia includes a section that reports on pedophile relationships from the point of view of boys in them. Reference is also made to 620 quotes of boys in Edward Brongersma’s [http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1557410038 Loving Boys].<br /> *'''[http://www.thinkandask.com/2006/042106-john.html Baseball, Boys, One Man on Illegal Love]'''<br /> *:A boy happily participates in a sexual and emotional relationship with an older man beginning at age 12. &quot;Jesse is less than half John's age and turned 15-years-old in April, but the boy is not his son. Jesse &quot;is my lover,&quot; John said, &quot;but the feelings are mutual, this is a consensual relationship.&quot; John met Jesse (not his real name) when the boy was homeless three years ago. [...] In Jesse's own words, &quot;John knows me, he's here inside my head already, I mean all along. He is my dad, boyfriend, best friend, brother, all in one. He's great,&quot; he grins as he chats with a friend on the office computer. [...] &quot;I brought it up and told him how I felt and offered to take care of him. That is when he said he was in love with me and never wanted to leave,&quot; John said.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.petertatchell.net/age%20of%20consent/14%20gay%20boyfriend.htm Lee]'''<br /> *:Gay sex at 8 / various illegal / all consenting &quot;Lee is 14. He's been having sex with boys since the age of eight, and with men since he was 12. Lee has a serious problem. He wants a steady relationship and has been going out recently with a guy in his mid-twenties, who he met at the hairdressers. But in the eyes of the law, Lee's partner is a paedophile and Lee is a victim of child abuse. That's not, however, the way Lee sees it: &quot;I want to have a boyfriend. It's my choice. No one's abusing me. Why should we be treated like criminals?&quot;. This is a live issue for Lee because he prefers relationships with older guys. &quot;I don't get on with people my own age&quot;, says Lee. &quot;They're too immature. I like men in their 20s or early 30s. They are more experienced and serious. With them, you can get into a closer relationship than with a teenager&quot;.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://danpedo.sexualpolitik.se/english/davidgb.php#1 David]'''<br /> *:Gay sex at 13 with a man in his mid-30s. &quot;[O]ne day he started telling me about all the boys he'd had, and.., we finally ended up in the next room. We had a good time. I actually thought it was a little funny; at one point I even started to laugh. I don't know why -- I just had this weird need to laugh. [...] It was all so new. It was exciting. [...] (Interviewer: It [your relationship] all sounds very rosy...) Yes, it's really, really great.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/vigilance-vital-to-keeping-vile-paedophiles-at-bay-57221.html Unnamed 13/14-year-old boy]'''<br /> *:Claims that he consented, but others saw it very differently! [username: as@df.com, p/w: asdf] &quot;The young lad in question, who was 13 when his contact with these paedophiles began, claims that the sexual relationships he had with them were all consensual. In other words, he is stating that he was not raped, and that, to his mind at least, there was no abuse.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.logicalreality.com/openbb/read.php?TID=1785&amp;page=4 Pat Kelly]'''<br /> *:Aged 5, he helped a boy, 17, masturbate; was grateful for his invitation (Forum down. Pat was the webmaster behind the rational humanist website LogicalReality.com and the associated forums. He claims to have enjoyed hiding in a garage and masturbating the other boy, much like a schoolboy would enjoy being allowed into the staffroom - the world of adults, with which he was so fascinated).<br /> *'''[http://www.martijn.org/info/OK41_EN_1.html Andre and Dennis]'''<br /> *:Educationalist on his relationship with a primary schoolboy. &quot;Actually, it really lasted quite a while before the sexual side of our relationship started to take shape; I did not dare begin with this so soon. André does feel a bit guilty towards Dennis' mother that he never brought up the sexuality. He asks himself if she may not have figured out after all, because every now and then she has made remarks that could point to that. She does know that Dennis and André have a very physical contact with each other and kiss each other. Basically, he would like to talk about it, but, understandably, this is not easy. On being asked, Dennis had a clear opinion: 'She does not need to know!'&quot;<br /> *'''&quot;[http://www.martijn.org/page.php?id=1171983 11-year-old faggot]&quot;'''<br /> *:Talks to NAMbLA. Boys speak out. Order: Nambla, P. O. Box 174, Midtown Sta. New York, NY10018 &quot;My first statement is that I want to dispel the image that a child is an ''innocent little puppy dog''. Children have plenty of knowledge about life, the universe and everything. But adults tend not to listen to their children. This ''innocent puppy'' syndrome represses the child's social, sexual, political, economical, and emotional desires. Children are not taken seriously and are expected to conform to a society in which they can't question its validity. This has got to stop! [...] A child is a sexual being. Therefore, children should have the right to explore any aspect of sexuality they desire to engage in. Why do parents, politicians, and police (the 3 p's) feed guilt into children that are sexually active? [...] Many people have been destroyed because of intergenerational relationships, people who could offer the world a lot if they had just not been persecuted for being different. Burning witches is a pastime which is just regaining popularity in the States.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.p-loog.info/English/interview_3_b/johnny.htm Johnny]'''<br /> *:Maternally approved Gay sex at 12 &quot;(Interviewer: What are the negative aspects of your contact with Ferdinand?) Tss ... There aren't any. [...except] to explain that to my family, or to keep his orientation hidden from them.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.p-loog.info/English/interview_3_b/peter.htm Peter]'''<br /> *:Happy with pedophile contacts from an early age (around ten) &quot;(Interviewer: What are the negative aspects of your contact with Ferdinand?) I don't have any.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.p-loog.info/English/interview_3_b/stephan.htm Stephan]'''<br /> *:Descriptive account of yet another acceptable relationship, beginning at age 11. &quot;Ferdinand really picked me up in a terrific way. I have learned lots from him, I've had many experiences and I've done lots of things with Ferdinand. I have learned something about human nature from Ferdinand. And other important things in society, responsibility, how to go about with money. I still don't do that very well, you know, it just didn't stick with me. But, you know, that sort of thing. The important things in life. Before Ferdinand I didn't know about any of these things and through him I have discovered them. Also, I always say, &quot;I didn't have a childhood until I met Ferdinand. Then I received my childhood.&quot; And that is really how it was because before that I had so many problems. [...] (Interviewer: What are the negative aspects of your contact with Ferdinand?) Not one! That is very easy to say. Not one.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://web.archive.org/web/20040823204921/http://www.logicalreality.com/openbb/read.php?TID=164 Pluto]'''<br /> *:Emotional need for sex with a boy, at 56, after enjoying the reverse long ago. Pluto's early childhood experience involved showering with a grown man, and enjoying sexual contact. At the time of the act, it would have most certainly been disapproved of, but there was no moral panic in place to rob him of his self-worth. &quot;Yes, I did have sex with an adult when I was very young--10, 11, 12 years old--and I treasure and cherish the memories... [...] I was not hurt in any way by it. i only wish there had been more times when he fooled around with me.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.ipce.info/host/sandfort_87/Appendix.htm Thijs and Joop]''' (in [[Theo Sandfort]]'s ''Boys on their contacts with men'')<br /> *:Befriended by a boylover at nine, and enjoying sex &quot;(Interviewer: What do you find the unpleasant aspects of sex with Joop?) There aren't any. I don't know of any, at least. [...] (Interviewer: Can you say who starts it, when you have sex?) Either of us. Sometimes me, yeah, mostly me. But he, too, real often. [...] (Interviewer: What do you think your mother would feel about your having sex with Joop?) I guess she'd think it was dirty. She'd think a man doing that with a child wasn't normal, that you just shouldn't do it. That's what she'd say. (Interviewer: And how do you feel about her thinking that way?) Rotten stupid! Although I wouldn't tell her it was rotten stupid. I mean, what business is it of hers? It's my business what I do. [...] (Interviewer: How do you feel about your having sex with Joop?) It's just really nice. (Interviewer: It's no problem for you?) It's just like a man going to bed with a woman--I think it's exactly the same: nice. And the feelings and so on they have, I have too.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.freewebtown.com/newsstand/archive/0316.html Unnamed Indian Boy]'''<br /> *:Newspaper article about M8 + M19 sex and the victim syndrome &quot;Once I was about 15, I grew familiar with terms like paedophilia and child abuse and started to realise what I had been through. This too had a downside. I found myself in 'the victim syndrome'. I started using this incident as an excuse to endear myself to people and constantly looked at myself as victimised in relationships and emotional circumstances. This persists even today but I try to rid myself of this misery.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showpost.php?p=3730495&amp;postcount=250 Sateryn]'''<br /> *:Got a 'kick' out of illegal sex play with adults, at five, but disliked the following investigation &quot;you know the most traumatic part about being molested as a child? sitting in a room with your parents and a therapist staring at you, forcing you to take naked cloth dolls and use them to put on a puppet show to show the adults what happened to you. the physical act of it? the molestation itself? hell, it was interesting... i was 5, it was something new, and i lucked out in that it wasn't violent, just people getting their rocks off - and quite frankly i got a kick out of it, at the time.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?p=3924233#post3924233 IIDB]'''<br /> *:Another member comments about their indifference, and expands later on. &quot;I remember one incident when I was 9 or so and my uncles were 20 and 21. They brought me and a cousin who's about my age to their room and we engaged in oral sex. It was a one-time thing, but I didn't repress the memory, felt ashamed by it, or otherwise damaged by it. We didn't talk about it though, and it doesn't come to mind often. Is that counted as abuse? I had no strong feelings about it then or now. [...] I don't claim that it didn't affect me then, but it affected me in the way sexual activities affect us at that age - that of guilt of doing something I was taught is wrong or shameful. It's the same feeling I got then after masturbation and sexual experimentation with my friends, male and female.&quot;<br /> *'''[https://www.boychat.org/messages/967788.htm Hangtwenty]'''<br /> *:1950s boylove with an oversexed 12-year-old. &quot;....The most intense affair happened between 1956 and 1958.... The boy, who was 12 when it started, not only told me that I was his 'best friend', but that I was his 'only friend'...! ....Since we both lived with our parents then, and both lived in the same apartment house, we were together alot... His intensity to be sexual with me was much stronger than mine was for him..!&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,,1589948,00.html Prominent British men on fagging in their public schools]'''<br /> *:Article by the Guardian<br /> *'''[http://www.inquisition21.com/article~view~69~page_num~2.html Gerald]'''<br /> *:Convicted for loving sex with teenage boys, after they made unfortunate spousal choices.<br /> *'''[http://www.martijn.org/info/2000_002_EN.html Dirk Tieleman]'''<br /> *:A journalist claims that a slightly coercive relationship worked to his own benefit. &quot;When I was thirteen, a boy of seventeen sexually used me for a period of time with slight coercion, but I never really felt bad about that. He jacked me off and forced me to jack him off, and at first I felt uncomfortable about that, but after a few times I began to enjoy it myself and the aspect of coercion trailed off. Off course, being a thirteen-year-old boy, I found it curious that I was doing such things with another boy, but I realize now that this first sexual experience has helped me approach girls - to whom I was far more attracted - confidently and without qualms later on. That first sexual experience with a boy was, to me, the perfect introduction to sexuality. [...] In the past years, since the Dutoux scandal, I've been hearing people say all the time that any form of sex with children would automatically lead to great disturbances and 'damage the innocent child's soul beyond repair', but I feel confident in stating with absolute certainty that I haven't suffered the least bit of damage from my first sexual experiences with that older boy - not as a child, and not now. On the contrary: I have always had a very normal and healthy sex life, perhaps even because of that first experience.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_553687.html Kevin B. Johnson's Boyfriend]'''<br /> *:&quot;The second boy [15/16?] described a sexual relationship with Johnson that began when the youth was a freshman in 2004 and continued until last month. He told police, &quot;I am not a victim. I was a willing participant,&quot; according to the affidavit.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.ipce.info/booksreborn/martinson/infant/InfantAndChildSexuality.html Floyd Martinson in his book &quot;Infant and Child Sexuality&quot;]'''<br /> *:Martinson quotes another's experience: &quot;My first homosexual experience came at the age of five or six, when I would play with this boy who was at that time about sixteen. He would ask me if I wanted to go into his house for something to eat, like some cookies or something. Of course I would go. Next he would ask me if I would go into the bedroom with him. Upon entering the bedroom, he would undress and ask me to do the same. I would, probably out of fright. I distinctly remember his body being very hairy, so perhaps I underestimated his age. Anyway, after undressing, he would tell me to bend over and then he would insert his erect penis into my anal region and start thrusting back and forth. He would then stimulate my penis and want me to do the same to him. We also masturbated each other, with him reaching orgasm and myself only being stimulated. I also spent some time in oral-genital contact. I did find the whole experience quite pleasing and continued to engage in these activities for a week or two. Then, and I don't recall why, we suddenly stopped doing it completely.&quot; <br /> *'''[http://home.wanadoo.nl/ipce/library_two/rind/rind_gay_boys_app.htm Bruce Rind, quoting accounts from Savin-Williams (1997).]'''<br /> *:[B: 13, M: 22] &quot;Subject and adult brother often massaged each other. &quot;This time, however, I got a little hard and then he noted I had grown so much since he last saw me naked. He asked me jokingly if he could suck my dick. I said 'yes' so we got off on each other. He did me and then I did him. He came all over me but I did not. This lasted a month until he headed back to work. I do miss him as a friend and a brother. Was nothing romantic.&quot; Subject added, &quot;I liked it, ... felt good. I wanted to do it again and again. I already knew my brother was gay and that I was attracted to men so this did not prove or disprove that I was gay.&quot;<br /> *:[B: 15, M: 27] &quot;[It was with] the mailman, honest to God! On and off for two years. The first time was when I came to the door to get a special delivery package in my sheer designer underwear, from American Male. I was changing to go back to school. He sprouted a boner, I got hard, he grabbed mine, I grabbed his, and we were off and running. Every day I'd come home for lunch; my mother worked. I had to be quick so he'd not get docked for late deliveries. He had a real thing for redheads like me. He was very forward, connected with me, and told me how hot I was. Talked about our backgrounds. It ended when he suddenly got transferred and contact became difficult. We visited each other and had sex, but it was hard and we agreed mutually because of the distance that it was better that we be friends and not lovers&quot; (p. 172).<br /> *:[B: 12, M: 22] It lasted 9 months with his science teacher. &quot;It developed over time and was great. We became friends and I invited him over once when my parents weren't home. I practically had to force sex on him because he was afraid about losing his job. Ended when I went away for the summer and he wasn't a teacher at my school no more&quot; (p. 163). &quot; <br /> *:[B: 12, M: 35] The man was a family friend; the sex was mutually initiated, oral, off and on for 10 years (a couple of times per month), and &quot;physically great.&quot; It confused the subject that the man was married, yet was willing to have sex with him. &quot;Eventually I fell in love with him; knew I was gay but did not broadcast this; I was curious because of the age difference. Mutual oral sex happened after he fondled me; it was the first orgasm I ever had.&quot; <br /> *:[B: 13, M: 38] &quot;Family friend. I initiated on a camping trip; we were in same tent at state park; oral sex to orgasm for both of us; several times during the night; incredibly erotic, tremendous release, very pleasurable. Not real close; didn't enjoy kissing. Afterwards scary because I enjoyed it so much. Not wanting to be near him on the trip because afraid others would notice. Once per month for the next 4 years that I initiated; never talked about it; sex was all it was. Wished I was straight so the attractions would go away, because the sexual gratification was so strong.&quot; <br /> *:[B: 14, M: 26] &quot;It was with a stranger; he initiated it; it involved oral and mutual masturbation, we did it 10 more times. I was excited, was loved and in love, got affection, but was not prepared for sex. It was not so l much that I wanted his affection; I was attracted to him. This relationship lasted a week then three months later we met again and we were sexual.&quot;<br /> <br /> *'''[[Bruce Rind]] - “The Problem with Consensus Morality”, ''Archives of Sexual Behavior,'' Vol. 31, No. 6, December 2002'''<br /> <br /> ::&quot;These are based on a sampling of interviews I recently conducted on individuals who learned about me from publicity surrounding my publications and contacted me to tell their stories. These cases, involving five men who had sex as boys around age 10 with men, dispute Schmidt’s claim that there can never be sexual consensus between prepubescents and adults. The cases are cross-national, coming from Australia, Canada, England, France, and the United States. The first three men are homosexual and the last two are heterosexual. All names have been altered to preserve confidentiality.<br /> <br /> :*Case 1. Nathan, a 45-year-old Brit, began being intensely curious about adult male genitalia when he was 8. At this age, in attempt to satisfy this curiosity, he surreptitiously went into the room of his household’s sleeping man servant and fondled him under his bed covers. By age 10, his curiosity had turned into sexual arousal. He unsuccessfully tried to solicit sex from men in locker rooms. At age 11, he met a neighbor man, whom he worked on over many visits in attempt to initiate sex. Eventually, he succeeded. In his many repeats with the man over the next 2 years, Nathan reported that he was the “conductor” - he controlled the sexual interactions. While still a boy, he had several other sexual relations with men, all of which he viewed as very positive. He thinks the sex helped his sexual self-confidence: as he matured, he knew exactly what he wanted in sex, while his peers were still searching.<br /> <br /> :*Case 2. James, a 23-year-old Canadian, first felt sexually aroused by other males at age 6 and had his first sex at 8 with a peer. At 11, he befriended a neighbor man, towhom he gave many signals, hoping for sex to occur. Eventually, it did, which made him feel proud and closer to the man. Over the next 3 years, he visited the man regularly, often secretly to avoid the possibility of his parents ending the relationship. He saw the relationship as very positive and said it built his personality (e.g., greater self-confidence) and influenced many of his tastes (e.g., an appreciation for literature).<br /> <br /> :*Case 3. Daniel, a 33-year-old Frenchman, was physically affectionate with his father starting at age 6. By 8, he became sexually attracted to him. At 10, he initiated sexual fondling with him, which the father accepted. In the sexual relationship, which lasted 4 years, Daniel always initiated the sex. In retrospect, he cherished the intimacy and described the relationship as &quot;beautiful, pure, security, confidence, and love.&quot; He said it built his sexual self-confidence.<br /> <br /> :*Case 4. At age 8, Dennis, a 21-year-old American, initiated sexual contact with a man friendly with his family, whom he suspected of being involved with his older brother. Sex occurred between them for the next 2 years. He said he usually initiated the encounters because he was always ready for sex. He described the relationship as the most positive he has ever had. He saw himself as having the upper hand, because he felt he had control over the man, who went to great lengths to fulfill his wishes. He felt that his adolescent and adult sexual relations went more smoothly because of the competence he got from these early experiences. Asked how a heterosexual male could have enjoyed homosexual relations, he answered that he was attracted to sex back then, not females or males per se.<br /> <br /> :*Case 5. John, a 22-year-old Australian, first realized his sexual arousal to girls at age 8. By 9, he felt lonely and was bullied by older boys, when he met a male neighbor in his late teens. They quickly became friends, and John spent a lot of time at his house. The young man eventually initiated masturbatory sex with him. John was at first apprehensive that others would find out, but became comfortable with the sex once he felt safe from this concern. The relationship lasted 3 years. He was proud to be seen with the older male, saw him as his protector, and saw the intimacy they had as the highlight of his life. Asked if the relationship was consenting, he said yes, because he wanted it, the young man wanted it, he loved the young man, so consent meant, &quot;Yes, do it.&quot;&quot;<br /> <br /> *'''[http://www.ipce.info/ipceweb/Library/01oct01c_my_father.htm My Father and I]'''<br /> *:Positive man-boy incest is interrupted by a mother. &quot;My father molested me from the time I was two till I was 15. We would lie naked and he would play with my penis. Then he would give me oral sex. When I was old enough I then started sucking him too. He never hurt me or tried to have anal sex with me, even though I wanted him to. I had anal sex with him, a few times, once my father decided my penis was big enough. My father and I would plan things around the times where we could meet and make each other feel good. My mother found out and two months ago my father was sent to prison. What my father did to me was not rape, at all. He never hurt me. In fact, I looked forward to spending the time with him but my mother and the police don't seem to listen.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.ipce.info/ipceweb/Library/00dec18c_a_professor_speaks.htm William Percy]'''<br /> *:Article &quot;UMASS professor advocates pederasty.&quot; William Armstrong Percy III says that when he was 14, he seduced a male soldier while traveling on a train. &quot;I never got enough sex with an older man. I don't see that I was harmed at all, except being deprived of not having more,&quot; said Percy. &quot;I was already the aggressor.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.ipce.info/library_3/files/tindall.htm The male adolescent involved with a pederast becomes an adult]'''<br /> *:Several accounts. &quot;During his 11th year he began spending his spare time around a service station, where he became acquainted with a master mechanic who was then in his early 40s, married, and childless. [...] On a fishing trip, during a break on an island, they began talking about sex, which led to Denver's being fellated by the mechanic and to masturbation of the mechanic by Denver. For the next 5 years mutual fellatio occurred two or three times per week. Sexual activity with the mechanic ceased at about age 19, but a close relationship continued to exist until the mechanic's death. Denver is now 44 years of age. [...] Denver remarried and has been a valued mechanic with the same company for 20 years. He has a supervisory position and believes that his relationship with his mechanic friend helped him reach his goals. He says he would have approved a similar relationship for either of his sons, had he become aware of such a situation. He reports no desire to have sex with males since approximately age 20.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/10/19/national/main2104978.shtml Mark Foley]'''<br /> *:Former American Republican, @13y/o. &quot;The Rev. Anthony Mercieca, 72, described several encounters that he said Foley might perceive as sexually inappropriate, the Sarasota Herald-Tribune reported. They include massaging Foley while the boy was naked, skinny-dipping together at a secluded lake in Lake Worth and being nude in the same room on overnight trips. &quot;Once maybe I touched him or so ... but I didn't, it's not something you call rape or penetration or anything like that,&quot; Mercieca told West Palm Beach station WPTV in a phone interview. &quot;He seemed to like it, you know? So it was sort of more like a spontaneous thing&quot;. Mercieca said.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://richarddawkins.net/article,118,Religionrsquos-Real-Child-Abuse,Richard-Dawkins Richard Dawkins]'''<br /> *:From an article of his, that despite not being exactly sex - positive, goes as far as is 'acceptable' in playing down the impact of nonviolent, situational fondling of children by priests, whilst attacking the religious dogmas that sometimes cause so much shame after such encounters. &quot;Being fondled by the Latin master in the Squash Court was a disagreeable sensation for a nine-year-old, a mixture of embarrassment and skin-crawling revulsion, but it was certainly not in the same league as being led to believe that I, or someone I knew, might go to everlasting fire. As soon as I could wriggle off his knee, I ran to tell my friends and we had a good laugh, our fellowship enhanced by the shared experience of the same sad pedophile. I do not believe that I, or they, suffered lasting, or even temporary damage from this disagreeable physical abuse of power. Given the Latin Master’s eventual suicide, maybe the damage was all on his side.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.ipce.info/ipceweb/Statements/factoids.htm Heinz Kohut]'''<br /> *:Strozier, quoting the Psychologist on his relationship as a child: &quot;I had this private tutor, who was a very important person in my life. He would take me to museums and swimming and concerts and we had endless intellectual conversations and played complicated intellectual games and played chess together&quot; They also did sexual things together, which they both enjoyed, but Kohut felt the sex was more or less incidental. The important thing for him was the relationship. He said &quot;I was an only child. So it was in some way psychologically life-saving for me. I was very fond of this fellow.&quot; Heinz was about 10 or 11 at the time. He describes his years with his tutor as being perhaps the happiest ones in his life.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://news.scotsman.com/farrightineurope/Fortuyn-favoured-depraved.2326187.jp Pim Fortuyn]'''<br /> *:Populist, anti - immigration, homosexual Politician from the Netherlands (deceased): &quot;Fortuyn's first experience occurred when he was five years old. &quot;The Dutch soldier asks if I want to see his tent. That's what I want. I like it and they all are sleeping on the ground in a sleeping-bag. I ask if it is hard and cold to sleep on the ground. Oh no, come here. Together we crawl in his sleeping-bag. The soldier asks my name and I ask his name. “He is called Arie and he asks if I like that name. Yes, I think that's a nice name and I lie beside him, nice and warm.&quot; Fortuyn then described a close sexual encounter with the soldier before leaving his sleeping-bag &quot;to go and play outside.&quot; He added: &quot;Can I come back tomorrow? Yes, tomorrow I may come back, says Arie.&quot; A few pages later, he describes another incident: &quot;I went to the park for a walk, it was very silent and the sun was shining. On the bench sat a young fellow. I stood still, curious.&quot; Fortuyn relates another sexual encounter - this time in explicit detail. He concludes: &quot;I was frightened and ran away to my home, to my mother. Excited, I ran into the room. My mother looked at me searchingly and asked what had happened. Nothing, of course. Watch out, little man, was the only thing she said. A glass of lemonade made me calm down. Yes, that was exciting.&quot; Most telling is his appraisal of these memories. &quot;In chapter 1 about the 1950s, I wrote about my early sexual experiences, experiences that I see as an enrichment. Today, an experience like that in the park could easily lead to a complaint by parents to the police because of paedophilia, and the relevant young man would be in trouble. But why? &quot;He didn't do me any harm. On the contrary, he showed me something that was incomprehensibly exciting and I could feel and touch it, but today we are ready to interfere with complete teams of professionals. By interfering in such an irritating and grown-up way in the world of children, we make an enormous problem of something that for a child is no problem at all and is only exciting.&quot;&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.mwillett.org/Debate/viewtopic.php?p=121929#121929 Todd Nickerson]'''<br /> *:A self-declared pedophile writes: &quot;I did have a single sexual encounter with an adult when I was a child, though I would hardly describe it as traumatic or even unpleasant. My memory of being touched—and that’s all it amounted to—is that it was, at most, a little confusing since I didn’t really understand what was taking place. Not that I really minded, though. In fact, after it occurred, I went immediately to a relative and bragged to her about it.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.boylover.net/ Boylover.net member on experiences as an 11-year-old boy]'''<br /> *:&quot;We piled back into the limo and it drove us to Toronto where we went to a stage play. I don’t remember what we saw because my head was still spinning about the fact that this attractive man, one who could have any female he wanted, was in love with me and was doing all this to make this night as special as he could. After the play, we headed for home. Limo drivers must have orders to ignore whatever they see going on in the back because ours got quite an eyeful. He was treated to the sight of an eleven-year-old boy and a nineteen-year-old man acting like boyfriends. We kissed, we petted, and we worked each other into an erotic frenzy, a frenzy for which there could only be one consummation.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.boylover.net/ Boylover.net member on intercourse]'''<br /> *:&quot;I was 10 and it was with an Adult Friend. I did not, nor do I now think I was abused. (well not by my AF anyway) I liked it. We only ever did the things I wanted to do.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.helping-people.info/Treatment/sot/offender.htm#3-6a_narrative_force Frans Gieles in an article of his]'''<br /> *:&quot;Craisatie (1998, among others page 117) describes a client who, as a child, had frequented a group, which in the book was called 'a child pornography ring'. As a child, he never had seen this as being abuse. Contrarily, he said that he'd gotten a lot of love, comradeship and care, which he did not get at home. Craisatie describes it as an example of successful treatment that his client ultimately abandoned his feeling of being loved and changed it into the feeling of being abused although this occurred only gradually and very late in the treatment process [...] Ehrenreich (2004) describes a man who for nineteen years was held in a closed clinic. He denied his offense, thus refused to speak about it, thus he did not cooperate, thus year after year his stay was renewed. Then, he changed tack: he 'acknowledged' his offense, he spoke about it, he did exactly what the therapists ordered, and said that he benefited from their treatment. This was the only way to be released. The man has been released. Then it turned out that his accusers had lied about everything they had said, under high pressure of the police: there never had been an offense.&quot;<br /> *'''Boy in Dan Tsang (1981)''', &quot;The age taboo&quot;. London: Gay Men's Press. <br /> *:&quot;It's often not the man who goes out to seduce the boy, but the other way round. In my first experience, I did the seducing. . . . It is mostly the boys who go out in search of sexual satisfaction from men...&quot;<br /> *'''[http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=bta8oOuDtoI (Man?) on YouTube]'''<br /> *:An extremely detailed account that was hindered by a voice concealer. Person had a positive relationship as youngster, and has met pedophiles.<br /> *'''[http://www.sunstar.com.ph/static/net/2007/10/19/orphans.admit.clown.fondled.them.html Carlock the Clown]'''<br /> *:Some young children pleaded with authorities not to press charges against a clown who played with them sexually. &quot;Surprisingly though, when asked by American embassy officials if they wanted their &quot;Kuya Paul&quot; charged in court for abusing them, all the three kids pleaded with the officials not to file a case against Carlock. &quot;Please don't file a case against Kuya Paul. He is a good man, he is a good man,&quot; the kids said. &quot;The kids told me that they loved the man so much because he was so good to them. They said they treated the man as their father. Paul gave them candies, lollipops,&quot; Karasuyama said.&quot; The clown was eventually [http://illinoishomepage.net/content/fulltext/?cid=9747 tasered and killed by police].<br /> *'''[http://terrygeorge.co.uk/home/?topic=440 Terry George on &quot;phone sex&quot; with Michael Jackson]'''<br /> *:According to George, Michael Jackson engaged him in &quot;phone sex&quot; at the age of 13: &quot;I do not feel like a victim and I never did feel like a victim,&quot; he said. See [http://terrygeorge.co.uk/home/?folder=13 directory] for other articles.<br /> *'''[http://www.freetimes.com/stories/13/43/confessions-of-a-proud-pedophile-phillip-distasio-says-getting-caught-was-all-part-of-his-plan Phillip Distasio]'''<br /> *:Imprisoned for life; a proud pedophile activist who had a relationship with an older man at 12. &quot;Distasio describes himself as a second-generation pedophile: at the age of 12, he began a relationship with an older man, a swimming instructor named Charlie, at a boys' club in Massachusetts. He says he's known about his proclivity since age 9. &quot;To me,&quot; he says, “it is as valid as any other sexual orientation.&quot;&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.broadbandreports.com/shownews/Cleaning-Up-Tor-82218 &quot;Jay78&quot; commenting on broadbandreports.com]'''<br /> *:&quot;Also, when I was about 6 years of age I was sexually &quot;used&quot; without coercion by an adult family member in ways that today would have put that person in prison. I almost forgot about that seemingly anecdotal incident and memory until I was reminded of it by the current hysteria over that kind of thing. Compared with the other things I experienced, that was not even worth thinking of, I would never hurt that person who did that and have a good relationship with that person today.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.ipce.info/library_3/files/rivas_howard_miller.htm &quot;Howard Miller&quot; as told to Titus Rivas, Ipce]'''<br /> *:&quot;We would zip our sleeping bags together and he would tickle and massage me all over. He would tell me dirty jokes while helping me with my homework and get me aroused. Then we would masturbate together. He satisfied me and then himself or we satisfied ourselves while watching each other. I thought that he was fascinating to look at and occasionally touch but not to satisfy. [...] I have only good feelings about what happened but am sad that most people will never be able to understand that. I also wish that we didn't have to worry about each other getting into trouble with the society over what happened. [...] Because I had such a positive experience as a child I believe that I can say with absolute certainty that sometimes such relationships can be very positive. Notice I don't say that they always will be, but heck more than 50% of marriages end in divorce. Most real child abuse occurs in families. Should then marriage be outlawed?&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.boylover.net/info/scrapbook/kolya_03.html Loren Robb and Kolya - Bulletin]'''<br /> *:A man tells of his loving relationship with a young native Arctic boy who he brought up in New Zealand.<br /> *'''[http://youfoundme.org/mylife.html My Life - Youfoundme.org]'''<br /> *:A very long testimony written by a person known to a contact of Newgon.com. &quot;It was the end of that summer that I learned what real heartache felt like. Sex was never the dominating factor in my relationship with James. I wanted to fool around a lot more than he did but I just liked being with him. He knew so much about construction and getting things to work that it was like being at school all the time except it was fun. Like any kid who hears his dad tell the same joke all the time I got tired of hearing &quot;plumbings easy boy, just remember shit flows down hill&quot;. What I really didn't want to hear was the day James told me we couldn't do the sex thing anymore. I don't recall his exact words but something to the effect &quot;this just isn't right or this isn't normal&quot;. I was crushed. It (our friendship) seemed so normal and great to me that I didn't understand why he felt that way. My suffering didn't come from the hands of an abuser, my suffer came from the words of a man who feared for my wellbeing. I kept telling him I was okay with things and nothing needed to change. Change did come and even my begging wouldn't get him to monkey around with me. It happened once or twice after the big talk but it was never the same.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2372/is_4_41/ai_n9488757/pg_1 Jessica L. Stanley (Researcher)]'''<br /> *:&quot;One man, at 14 years old, researched the location of gay bars and met a man with whom he had a few sexual encounters and with whom he has maintained a friendship for nearly 20 years.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2372/is_3_39/ai_94130312 Curtis Dolezal (Researcher)]'''<br /> *:&quot;participant was 10 when he had sexual contact on 20 occasions over 3 months with a 25-year-old male neighbor. The events involved mutual masturbation and oral sex. The participant did not feel coerced or hurt and did not feel it was sexual abuse &quot;because I seduced the neighbor.&quot;<br /> *'''[[Paedophilia: The radical case|O'Carroll 1980, p.83-84]]'''<br /> *:&quot;As a boy he became sexually mature at age twelve-and-a-half. &quot;It was like the world was beginning to make sense, to take on purpose and meaning. [...] I regard my meeting with Mr. S., then aged twenty-six, as a critical turning point in my love life. Until then, sex was fun, felt good and left me only moderately guilty. Once I approached Mr.S. (Yes, I approached him) with my thirteen-year-old impatience for intimacy, he told no one, responded positively to my shaky advances (didn't even laught at me!) and simply embraced me. [...] Here was a masculine adult man (happily married even), who was interested in doing with me what I was already finding exciting with my boy-friends. And through this relationship a new dimension was added to my experience which has not occurred to me before - tenderness, affection and love. (...) This affection was, in its way, just as satisfying as the ecstatic orgasms that punctuated our days and nights together. I regard this man, this relationship as a turning point because I was never the same after knowing him for two years - I was more in tune with myself after that...&quot;.<br /> *'''[[Sex met kinderen]], pages 75-76. (Untranslated - [[Frits Bernard]])'''<br /> *:A 25 year old man tells of a relationship struck up with a gay man when he was eight. They started having sex when he was ten, something that he enjoyed. The relationship lasts until he is 18.<br /> *'''&quot;En me vriendje houdt van mij: 23 verhalen uit het leven gegrepen&quot;, edited by Ben Füss and Gorrit Goslinga (Eindhoven: Stichting Uitgeverij NVSH, 1981)'''<br /> *:&quot;We had just moved and that was how I met a nice man, as a 13-year-old. We talked a lot, in his room. He was very interested in art and possessed a lot of books with pictures of works of art and sculpture. I had little interest for this but did not want to hurt Dick's feelings. Only the pictures that showed nudity captured my interest. I also tried to hide this. [...]&quot; This interest was noticed by Dick and it led to Dick briefly caressing the boy's genitals. Dick was very cautious and tried to end it immediately. The boy was very eager to have additional sexual experiences and finally persuaded Dick to allow him a visit. One thing led to another and the end result was a tender sexual relationship that lasted for about six years. After the war he re-established a life-long friendship with Dick, though without the sexual aspect. He was there when Dick died at age 83. He adds: &quot;The value of this relationship is something I continue to cherish till this very day.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/15/science/15gajdusek.html &quot;D. Carleton Gajdusek, Who Won Nobel for Work on Brain Disease, Is Dead at 85&quot;]'''<br /> *:&quot;D. Carleton Gajdusek, a virologist who won the 1976 Nobel Prize in medicine for his work on the mysterious epidemics now known as prion diseases, died last week in Tromso, Norway. [...] In later life, Dr. Gajdusek became notorious when he was charged with molesting the many young boys he had adopted in New Guinea and Micronesia and brought to live with him in Maryland. He pleaded guilty to one charge, served a year in prison and left the United States in 1998, dividing his time between Paris, Amsterdam and Tromso. [...] He also remained unrepentant about the sexual relationships with his adopted sons, Dr. Klitzman said. He considered American law prudish and pointed out that sex with young men was normal in the cultures he studied and in the classic Greek societies at the foundation of Western civilization. His legal assistant, Dorrie Runman, who was previously married to one of his sons, John Runman, said Dr. Gajdusek’s survivors included “his adopted sons and daughters, including Yavine Borimaand Jesse Mororui-Gajdusek in the United States, and two nephews, Karl Lawrence Gajdusek and Mark Terry.” His children were legally adopted, Ms. Runman said. He put several through college and graduate or medical school. Some of them, now in their 50s, supported him during his legal troubles, while one sibling testified against him.&quot;<br /> <br /> *'''[http://www.jungsforum.net/politik/messages/159581.htm Anon, in Berliner Zeitung (Translation)]'''<br /> *:&quot;Being 52 now, I got a relationship with a man at the age of 8-9 of whom I was told later that he was a paedophile. The relationship went on until I was about 14 years old and we were lucky that it remained undiscovered and free of police enquiries. Even today, so many years later, I remember my big friend with gratitude, as he made my coming out as a gay person later on – and many other things in my life - a lot easier for me. Since then, I have met numerous people who also had [consensual] sexual relationships with adults as children and teenagers and who are not ashamed of this. It is easy to understand why such people never get in touch with abuse counseling agencies, because they really don't need such help. That's how such centres get a completely one-sided view of so-called victims of abuse.&quot;.<br /> <br /> *'''''Paedophilia - What It Means To The Child'' by [[Frits Bernard]], printed in [http://exitinterview.biz/rarities/panfull.htm PAN 3] (pp. 15 - 17)'''<br /> **&quot;I was about 13 when I had my first paedophile experience. [...] The man who brought me into touch with homosexuality and whom I even loved physically was, and still is, one of my dearest friends. I remember what a wonderful feeling it was when he satisfied me for the first time. I was not troubled in the least by worries over having done 'perverted things', probably because I had no idea of what such things were. [...] The only trouble I have had over this was when I first told my fiancée about it.&quot;<br /> **&quot;When I was seven I had contact with a man who was especially nice to me. He used to take me to his attic, sit me on his lap and play with me sexually. I thought it was very nice and enjoyed it. I always looked forward to Wednesday afternoons, the days when we saw each other. This went on for a long time. Later I had many contacts with other men, but never with boys my own age. One day I went with a waiter to his house. I was very interested and excited. We had unusually satisfying sex together. I must have been about 14. Back home I was restless and went to see him the very next day on my own initiative. We had intercourse about twenty times in the following period. [...] Now, after a good life, I can see these early contacts as very positive to my development. I would not like to have missed them and I do not envy the people who never had these opportunities.&quot;<br /> **&quot;When I was about eight years old I got to know a man in the street who thought I played very nicely. He invited me out for a bicycle ride, and later to visit his home. [...] From him I received love, which actually I had never known (not, I mean, in the way I know it at present from my wife). [...] Later, when I was ten or eleven, we had sex with each other, something I always enjoyed.&quot;<br /> **Several further accounts involving slightly older minors are available in the article.<br /> <br /> *'''Zimmerman, Ann (1994). &quot;[http://www.dallasobserver.com/1994-11-17/news/tell-mama-why-you-cry-part-i/5 'Tell Mama Why You Cry' (Part I)],&quot; ''Dallas Observer'', November 17.'''<br /> *:&quot;The tape of Tim's interview could not be located, but according to Black's notes, Tim had seen his father touch his sister on her private parts on several occasions. &quot;He stated his father tickles Lima on her private parts and she likes it. When questioned further, Tim revealed his father also touches him on his private parts...at his house...Tim stated he doesn't mind his father doing this.&quot;<br /> <br /> *'''[[Terry Leahy]]: Positively Experienced Man/Boy Sex : The Discourse of Seduction and the Social Construction of Masculinity, ''Australian and New Zealand Journal of Sociology'' 28,1 (1992) pp. 71-88.'''<br /> *:A study of eight people who perceived their childhood (under 16) contacts with adults positively.<br /> *:&quot;Derek describes his first sexual encounter with a man in the following way. He is at the park at six o’clock on the swing. A man rushes towards him and begins to strip off:<br /> *::I just sat there looking. I didn’t know what to do but sort of thrilling. I looked, gawked, sort of ... I didn’t mind, I just kept on swinging on the swing. And I wasn’t scared or anything and he just come up to me and said ’Oh, how are ya?’ and I said ’Oh, not too bad’. In other words, coming on to me. And he turned around and said, ’Oh, what’s your name?’ And I’d tell him my name ’cause I wasn’t scared or anything because it was in a park and it was about six o’clock, really early, six, you know what I mean. And he just said, ’Would you like a drink?’ and I said ’No’. Then I started getting a bit nervy, nervous sort of thing. I knew, I must ... I knew in a way that he’d do something. So I just sat there, you know, and he said, ’Oh, would you like to come for a drive?’ Well I rushed him! So I just went for a drive with him and there we got off. First time, we got off ... I wanted to try it out. So I tried it. It was a really good feeling. Ever since then I kept on going.<br /> *:Here the narrative of this event begins with Derek sitting innocently on the swing. A man appears with obvious sexual intentions. Derek is instantly thrilled and takes voyeuristic pleasure in seeing him undress. He is not scared to go with the man and in fact ’rushes’ him. The sex is great and he has an orgasm. Even anal sex, though a bit uncomfortable at first, is enjoyed. All this has happened because he wanted to try it out and having done so he is eager to repeat the experience. This is typical of the discourse of male adolescent sexuality - spontaneous, adventurous, sexual pleasure is guaranteed, and casual contact is exciting. Derek presents himself as an active and initiating party. The events that take place are in reponse to his emerging self constituted sexual desire. All this works against any interpretation of Derek as a victim of homosexual seduction. Summarising his attitude to these sexual encounters on another occasion he concludes:<br /> *::I mean to say, sex is sex, you gotta, you know, well ... The way I feel, what would you do without it? It’s just something normal. Sex is just normal for everybody. Not just for me, for everybody and to do without ... I reckon it would be pretty hard to do without it so you’re just going to have to think.<br /> *:[...]<br /> *:Christopher’s interview provides a thorough discussion of these issues. At the time when he was interviewed he was in his mid thirties. His relationship with an adult gay man, George, began when he was about nine years old and lasted till he was eighteen. In a wry comment on the discourse of seduction he offered this remark:<br /> *::So I suppose then, you want to know now if I’m fucked up now sexually because of this terrible trauma of my childhood? Well - no. Umm. My main thrust - pun! - is heterosexual but ahh, I still occasionally sleep with males but when I say occasionally I mean very occasionally.<br /> *:[...]<br /> *:In particular, in discussing the various sexual activities in which he was engaged, Christopher stresses the physical pleasures of various acts and argues that his initial reservations about particular practices (oral sex, anal sex) were broken down as he received physical pleasure from these activities and came to feel that it was only fair to reciprocate.&quot;<br /> <br /> *'''[[Frits Bernard|Bernard, F.]] (1979). &quot;[http://exitinterview.biz/rarities/pan/htmfiles/pan3p13.htm Paedophilia: What it means to the child]&quot; ''[[PAN]]'', November 1979.'''<br /> <br /> :*A heterosexual male recalls at age 24: &quot;I had my first sexual contact with an older man in Rotterdam... It was nothing more than each of us quickly masturbating each other, looking shyly around us. Once this corner was turned a lot of other experiences followed. I can't say much about them, just sex and nothing more. One of the reasons nothing lasted was that the men were dead scared of being trapped. The iniative always came from me. I used to wear my shortest and cutest shorts and stroll across the market squares and through the busiest streets of Rotterdam until I saw someone I thought was 'like that' and then I allowed myself to be 'seduced'. That went on until I was 17. [...] I have no regrets about this period. I am only sorry that I never had what I was really looking for: an older friend with whom I could enjoy not only sex but all kinds of things, someone who could teach me about everything.&quot;<br /> <br /> :*An engaged, heterosexual male recalls at age 23: &quot;I was about 13 when I had my first paedophile experience (...) The man who brought me into touch with homosexuality and whom I even loved physically was, and still is, one of my dearest friends. I remember what a wonderful feeling it was when he satisfied me for the first time.&quot; Despite this, the man makes it clear that he does not approve of pedophilic contact, as it happens today.<br /> <br /> :*A heterosexual adult recalls at age 37: &quot;I must have been 14 [or] 15 at the time of my first sexual encounter with a man of about 30. I enjoyed these experiences. (...) I am now married and have four children. People with this inclination should fit into society and our society should accept this as natural. But it will be a very long time before this happens. (...) My earlier contacts of this kind were so upsetting to my parents that, at the time, I always had the feeling that I was dong something wrong. Now I see it as part of a personal experience which I would not like to see removed from my life.&quot;<br /> <br /> :*A gay man recalls at 67, the following contact with a 35-year-old man: &quot;When I was 7, I had contact with a man who was especially nice to me. He used to take me to his attic, had me sit on his lap and we had sexual contact with each other. I really found it pleasant and enjoyed it. I was always looking forward to Wednesday afternoons, the days we saw each other. This went on for a long period of time. [...] Now, as a nearly 68-year-old man, who has had a good life, I regard these contacts I used to have as very positive for my development. I would not have wanted to miss them, and I do not envy people who have never not had these opportunities. [...] Later I had many contacts with other men, but never with boys my own age. One day I went with a waiter to his house. I was very interested and excited. We had unusually satisfying sex together. I must have been about 14. Back home I was restless and went to see him the very next day on my own initiative. We had intercourse about twenty times in the following period.&quot;<br /> <br /> :*A straight man recalls at 25, the following relationship: &quot;When I was about eight years old I got to know a man in the street who thought I played very nicely. He invited me out for a bicycle ride, and later to visit his home (...) Gradually, we got to know each other... and I came to realise that he was homosexual. This did not shock me; I just wanted to know more about it. (...) From him I received love, which actually I had never known (...) Later, when I was ten or eleven, we had sex with each other, some-thing I always enjoyed. That lasted until I was eighteen, when I started going steady with a girl. When I became engaged I was able to tell my future wife with an easy mind about my youthful experiences. She could appreciate the whole thing very well. [We have] an especially good marriage, an especially fine sexual relationship, and an especially dear little daughter.&quot;<br /> <br /> *'''Wolf Vogel (author) ''[http://www.ipce.info/host/rivas/boys_men/bjorn.htm Heimliche Liebe: Eros zwischen Knabe und Mann]'', 1997. Translator writes of the following translation: &quot;includes the remarkable case of Björn and Jan, located in a major town in the North of Germany.&quot;'''<br /> <br /> :*&quot;When Björn (32) was a young boy, he met his adult friend Jan (45) and they still had a sexual relationship at the time of the interview. As a 10-year-old boy, Björn felt attracted to social worker Jan because of the latter's revolutionary ideas and Björn tried to provoke him with a lot of questions and remarks about sexuality. One day, when Björn was eleven and a half, they happened to meet near the town's riverbank. Björn tried to get Jan sexually interested in him and when they met at Jan's place he finally succeeded. Björn really wanted Jan to penetrate him, but Jan declined the offer and it took Björn a year to convince him that he was not afraid of getting physically hurt in the process. The boy really enjoyed this type of penetrative sexual contact and now that he's an adult, he's still doing it quite often with Jan. He remarks that if one wishes to speak of seduction in this relationship, it was him who was the seducing party. Their relationship has always stayed a secret for the people in their environment. Jan used to help Björn with the problems he was having with his parents, and also with his educational and professional progress.&quot;<br /> <br /> *'''Seth Mydans (author) ''[http://www.nytimes.com/1989/02/05/world/in-a-philippine-town-child-prostitution-despite-protests-is-a-way-of-life.html In a Philippine Town, Child Prostitution, Despite Protests, Is a Way of Life]'', 1989.'''<br /> <br /> :*&quot;Drive into this green and quiet town [Pangsanjan, Philippines] 40 miles southeast of Manila and groups of men will run alongside your car, banging on the windows, offering a choice of the local attractions: A boat ride to the scenic waterfall or a child prostitute. (...) When Mrs. Zaide's group, the Council of Citizens for the Protection of Children, pasted up posters warning against prostitution, the citizens of Pagsanjan tore them down. Stones were thrown at the houses of council members. When the Immigration Commission a year ago arrested 22 foreigners who were engaged in prostitution rings, some parents, the recipients of their largesse, testified in their defense. (...) Estafania Aldaba-Lim, a former minister of social welfare who has studied the Pagsanjan situation, said local residents discovered the easy money in male prostitution when American filmmakers came to town to shoot scenes for &quot;Apocalypse Now.&quot; &quot;I suppose some gays with the crew fell in love with the young macho boatmen,'&quot; she said, &quot;and then it went to much younger boys, down to 9, 10, 11 years old, and the whole town got in on it.&quot; (...) But, Miss Zaide said child prostitution continues. One Swiss national, she said, married the sister of his 15-year-old male lover and has applied to return home not with his wife but with his new brother-in-law. &quot;The family is proud of it,&quot; Miss Zaide said. It flaunts his gifts, which include one of the better residences in town. '''At school, according to another member of Miss Zaide's group, children proudly display the new clothes, pocket money and other gifts that they receive from their patrons, tempting other children to follow their example.''' [emphasis ours] One Third of Boys Are Involved. Miss Zaide estimated that one-third of the youngsters have taken part in the sex trade in this town of 22,000, where 65 percent of the population is below the age of 18. When teachers confront the parents of these children, she said, the parents ask them, &quot;What can you give us in exchange? Can you pay for my child's schooling? Can you give him an allowance? Can you build a home for us?&quot;&quot;<br /> <br /> *'''&quot;Neil&quot; in Birkett, D. ''[http://www.deabirkett.com/pages/journalism_film/film/monsters_with_human_faces.htm The Devil Amongst Us - accompanying article]'', 1997.'''<br /> <br /> :*&quot;During my research I met Neil, a gay man now aged 40, who enjoyed having sex with adult men from the age of nine. &quot;It seems to be politically correct, even within the gay movement, to be anti-paedophile. But when I ask gay male friends when they first had sex they say, 'Oh, ten, 11, 12, with a bloke down the road who was 22.' He was probably a paedophile!&quot;&quot;<br /> <br /> *'''&quot;Dan&quot; in Newberger, Eli H., ''Bringing Up a Boy'' (Perseus Books, 1999)<br /> :&quot;In ninth grade, Dan began sexual activity with men, some in their twenties, others in their thirties or older. He meets many of them in gay clubs. He also feels confident initiating contact with strangers in public, in stores, for example.&quot; <br /> <br /> [[Category:Official Encyclopedia]][[Category:Testimony]][[Category:Testimony: Contact]]<br /> <br /> [[fr:Témoignages: Adulte mâle avec mineur mâle]]</div>

StephenJames http://newgon77idcem62vqlfge3jkidjenvf6afhxwr2napk4kpp2labjbdid.onion/wiki/index.php?title=Testimony:_Adult_Male_with_Minor_Male&diff=5866 2009-09-17T10:41:07Z

<p>StephenJames: </p> <hr /> <div>{{Template:A&amp;T}}<br /> *'''[http://dir.salon.com/story/mwt/feature/2002/07/22/coming_of_age/ Minor report] by David Tuller in Salon.com, July 22, 2002.'''<br /> **An aircraft maintenance worker describes his first experience at thirteen with a man of about 30 who had hired him to do yard work. After inviting him inside and showing him pictures of men wrestling, the man “started rubbing my crotch, and I was both nervous and really excited by it.” He went on to seek out other significantly older men. “I never felt used. I really wanted it, and except for the first time I always felt like the aggressor.” <br /> **Noted gay novelist Edmund White talks about picking up men at Chicago beaches and public restrooms from the age of 13 or 14. “I was very oversexed, absolutely driven wild by desire. ... The first one was a handsome architect, who actually had children older than me. I was absolutely fascinated by him, and I seduced him. I followed him to his car, walked right up to him and started talking to him. My mother was away and I said, ‘Come back to my apartment.’ And it was terrific.” <br /> ** In an essay about sex between adolescents and adults, David Tuller relates his own desire as a 15-year-old &quot;tormented homosexual wannabe.&quot; Upon seeing the movie Summer of '42, in which a young widow &quot;pulls Hermie into her arms and, in her grief, into her bed,&quot; he says, &quot;I cried while I watched, ... because I so yearned for the tender moments that Hermie found.&quot; <br /> **A gay health care professional in his 50s discusses how the relationship he pursued with a family friend in his early 20s helped him learn at the age of fifteen that men could care for each other. &quot;It was clear that it certainly felt good to both of us. ... In some way it was a real lifesaver, because it made me feel that love and affection and closeness and sex would be possible in my life. ... when we were together, it was like a little oasis where we could be ourselves.&quot; <br /> ** A businessman in Denver recounts his two-year relationship, from age fifteen, with his 29-year-old boss at the restaurant where he worked. &quot;It was frightening and invigorating and I felt clumsy and awkward. But he was playful and fun and very gentle. I never felt coerced. As foreign as it was to me I was very open to it. Afterwards, I felt good, like I'd experienced something I'd wanted to for a long time.&quot; Speaking of how it affected his life at the time, he says, &quot;I wasn't an awkward, out-of-place kid anymore. I felt appreciated for being gay, instead of being an outcast and made fun of. Suddenly I had this new self-confidence. I didn't have to hate myself for being gay.&quot; <br /> *'''[http://www.boychat.org/messages/932440.htm A long and varied career by Ambar] on BoyChat, July 2005.'''<br /> *:A man recounts his earliest sexual experiences, including with his best friend’s father at eight years old: “He became my second very, very, very best friend and so began a wonderful, loving relationship. I still adore that man :-)” <br /> *'''[http://newgon.com/CPP/HFP-072.htm Letter from John] in HFP Mailbag and [http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/13023005/ Sexual Abuse from a Victim] by John Tate, December 7, 2004.'''<br /> *:A 17-year-old reports on the anguish in his life stemming from sexual activity with his grandfather from age seven and attributes the worst aspects to society’s attitudes about it: “I think if this sort of thing was tolerated I would not have felt so fucking alienated, so hated, as a child, I would have not been an outcast.” <br /> *'''[http://www.boychat.org/messages/932397.htm count me IN !!! :))] by siao on BoyChat, July 2005. '''<br /> *:A man recounts his first experience of sex with an adult at seven years old: “suddenly fun was &quot;in&quot; … gosh, what was that twirling feeling which went all thru me ???” He also speaks of such encounters with many other men, saying, “NOT A SINGLE ONE EVER ABUSED ME ! I was free to say 'YES!!!!' and also knew how to say 'no' if there were ever anything I might not want.” <br /> *'''[http://www.bostonmagazine.com/articles/boy_crazy/ Boy Crazy] in Boston Magazine, May 2001'''<br /> **Famous poet Allen Ginsberg commented on the 1977 pedophilia scandal in Revere, Massachusetts, &quot;I had sex when I was 8 with a man in the back of my grandfather’s candy store in Revere, and I turned out okay.&quot; <br /> **Best-selling Canadian author James Dubro was 14 in 1961 when he started having sex with a 22-year-old college student who remains his friend 40 years later. <br /> *'''[http://newgon.com/CPP/BC-146796.htm My Story: A story of a boy] by Elf on BoyChat, October 1998.'''<br /> *:A man in his mid-20s tells his story. When he was nine or ten years old, he responded willingly to the seduction of a 16- or 17-year-old neighbor boy. They had a passionate love affair for over a year until they were discovered and his father beat him savagely. The older boy’s family disappeared from town. This man wrote of that affair as the best thing that ever happened to him and attributed his deep problems at the time of writing to the brutal way it was torn away from him. <br /> *'''&quot;[http://newgon.com/CPP/Spike/xaboutme.htm Spike]&quot; on his website'''<br /> *:A 15-year-old boy writes about his adult lover: “When I was 10, I found myself a mentor, a wonderful old man that needed me as much as I needed him. … J has been the best thing that could ever have happened to me. Everything I am today I owe to J. He and Mom are both educated people who believe that I must prepare myself for adulthood by learning how to learn, how to think for myself, and how to believe in myself … Mom sees the results of my association with J, and she could not be more pleased.” <br /> *'''[http://newgon.com/CPP/Hoby-mod.htm Hoby] on his website'''<br /> *:A boy proclaims his interest in adult men and says, “You should be able to love whoever you want when you want and as long as you both happy it dont matter what anyone else thinks.” <br /> *'''''[http://newgon.com/CPP/Arlekin/complain-mod.htm My Complaints]'' by David Alejandro, December 1996, on his website.'''<br /> *:A 13-year-old boy makes an impassioned plea for sexual freedom: “I want to love and be loved by whom I want. For the last two years I have an older friend. I am not gay, I like girls. He doesn’t, but we understand each other very well. It is nobody’s business what we do or don’t do. … Stop protecting me, please!” (Note: His site history page indicated that he was 13 when he posted this page and 15½ in June 1999. The English index pages said that he lived in the “Land of the Incas.”)<br /> *'''[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voor_een_verloren_soldaat Voor Een Verloren Soldaat] (For A Lost Soldier), autobiographical novel by Rudi van Dantzig, 1986 and 1992 movie made from it'''<br /> *:Acclaimed ballet dancer and choreographer Rudi van Dantzig tells the story of his brief romance at twelve with a Canadian soldier at the end of World War II. <br /> *'''[http://newgon.com/CPP/Stefan/index.htm Stefan] on his web page'''<br /> *:A 12-year-old in Holland says, “I will tell you about my BEST friend. He’s 28 and works at home. I love him the most in the world and he loves me. He says I’m the cutest boy in the world.” <br /> *'''[http://www.scottohara.com/obit.htm Scott O'Hara], quoted in his obituary at the Spirit of Stonewall Press Conference, New York City, June 24, 1994.'''<br /> *:The publisher of Steam magazine says, “When I was 12 and 13 years old I would have joined NAMBLA in a minute, because I knew I was gay and I wanted to go out and get laid, not just read The Gay Mystique all my life; I needed personal contact.” <br /> *'''Ik Wilde Meer! (“[http://www.martijn.org/info/Martijn/martijn02.pdf I Want More!]”) in Martijn (PDF, 6 Mb), December 1980, page 16-18, in Dutch.'''<br /> *:A married man reports on his 6-year-long relationship with a man who showed him erotic art and masturbated him. The relationship later turned platonic and the younger man was at the older’s deathbed 37 years later. <br /> *'''[http://www.boylover.net/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/10/194.html tribute to frank] by mick15 on BoyLover.net, December 7, 2005.'''<br /> *:A teenaged boy describes his loving, sexual relationship with his soccer mentor, who had recently died. <br /> *'''I want to speak out!!!!!!!! by “15 yr old boy” on BoyChat, September 2000.'''<br /> *:A 15-year-old boy writes about his adult lover: “He is the best thing that has ever happened to me. … I wish this world would just open its eyes and see that relationships like this are healthy and good for boys my age—but yes only if the boy wants the relationship.” <br /> *'''[http://newgon.com/CPP/Adam-mod.htm There is Magic Out There] by Joshua Adam on his website.'''<br /> *:A 13-year-old in the 10th grade writes about the emotional support he gets from his older friend, Angel, who is helping him overcome the hatred cast upon him by his family and school for liking other boys. Angel and Adam have never met in person and do not plan to do so. Their relationship is entirely nonsexual, although it is definitely one of love and mentorship.<br /> *'''Author [http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1588180395 Kirk Read]'''<br /> *: In his 2001 book, How I Learned to Snap, Kirk Read tells of his sexual experiences with adults starting at age 13, which he says saved his life. &quot;Intergenerational sex saved my life&quot;, &quot;American culture's only frame of reference for sex with minors is abuse. I don't deny that abuse occurs, but this should be addressed on a case-by-case basis. A blanket approach that criminalizes all sex between adults and minors undermines the fact that for many gay teenagers, sex with an adult can be a beautiful, life-changing experience. It was for me&quot;, &quot;I sought out sex with older men time and time again as a teenager. I had fumbling sexual encounters with other kids as a preadolescent, but they always left me unsatisfied. None of us knew what we were doing, and our shame and fear overwhelmed any joy of discovery&quot; (pp.57-59) [http://www.nambla.org/snap.htm Reviewed] by NAMbLA.<br /> <br /> *'''[http://newgon.com/CPP/Shane-mod.htm Shane] on his website'''<br /> *:A 14-year-old gay boy in Australia says, “I have one really good adult friend that knows about my sexuality, … Steve has never tried anything sexual with me, although I often wish he would.” <br /> *'''[http://www.boychat.org/messages/932399.htm Under My House . Tent Sleeping . Neighbors Bedroom] by Linca on BoyChat, July 2005. '''<br /> *:A man recounts his first experiences of sex, including with an adult neighbor at 14: “[He] did with me … what he had been wanting to do with me since I was 8 years old. We are friends to this day.” <br /> *'''Two posts by hyacinth on BoyChat: [http://newgon.com/CPP/BC-663921.htm May 2002] [1] and [http://www.boychat.org/messages/932570.htm July 2005] [2]'''<br /> *:A man describes his childhood sexual experiences with adults. The first was anal sex with a benedictine monk at 14 years old: “I was't stupid, at 14 I knew my way around … He was very nice and very gentle, and I liked him alot.” [1] Next was a relationship that lasted for a year and a half with a man and his two sons. [2] <br /> *'''[http://newgon.com/CPP/Benjamin-LettersOfBoy.htm Letters of a Loving Boy--Excerpted letters and diaries of boys], edited by Jarod Benjamin, 1997.'''<br /> *:A 14-year-old boy wrote a series of love letters, unsuccessfully courting an adult friend for a more intimate relationship. <br /> *'''[http://newgon.com/CPP/Mogenic-LikeGreece.htm Just Like Greece? — Gay Teen Dates Septuagenarian], an interview of “:John ”: by Brandon K. Thorp in ''Mogenic'', June 2006.'''<br /> *:A 22-year-old man talks about the 67-year-old man he met at the museum where they were both volunteering when he was 13. A friendship emerged based on unusually common interests for such a pair. The relationship evolved into mentoring and eventually romance, which became sexual two years later. They remained occasionally intimate for five years while the teenager also began to explore relationships with his age peers. Looking back on the man’s death when he was 20, he says, “He enhanced the quality of my youth, and his influence will likely enhance the quality of my entire adult life. And I enhanced his old age. We both got something out of it.” <br /> *'''[http://newgon.com/CPP/Aaron/index.htm Aaron], on his website'''<br /> *:A 15-year-old boy talks about his adult lover on his website. <br /> *'''[http://www.nambla.org/boys.htm Boys Speak Out on Man/Boy Love], NAMBLA, 1981.'''<br /> *:NAMBLA published a book with first-person accounts of 29 boys about their relationships with older men. Titles include ''The Best Thing That Ever Happened to Me'' by Greg, 16, ''It Shouldn’t Be a Crime to Make Love'' by Bryan, 12, ''If It Wasn’t for Mark I’d Probably Be Dead Today'' by Carl, 14, ''I Need My Lovers'' by Tyrone, 16, and ''It Was Me Who Started It'' by Frank, 15. <br /> *'''The perspective of a loving boy in [http://newgon.com/CPP/Benjamin-BoysAndBoylovers.htm On Boys and Boylovers] by Jarod Benjamin, 1997.'''<br /> *:Jarod Benjamin’s 1997 study of male-male pedophilia includes a section that reports on pedophile relationships from the point of view of boys in them. Reference is also made to 620 quotes of boys in Edward Brongersma’s [http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1557410038 Loving Boys].<br /> *'''[http://www.thinkandask.com/2006/042106-john.html Baseball, Boys, One Man on Illegal Love]'''<br /> *:A boy happily participates in a sexual and emotional relationship with an older man beginning at age 12. &quot;Jesse is less than half John's age and turned 15-years-old in April, but the boy is not his son. Jesse &quot;is my lover,&quot; John said, &quot;but the feelings are mutual, this is a consensual relationship.&quot; John met Jesse (not his real name) when the boy was homeless three years ago. [...] In Jesse's own words, &quot;John knows me, he's here inside my head already, I mean all along. He is my dad, boyfriend, best friend, brother, all in one. He's great,&quot; he grins as he chats with a friend on the office computer. [...] &quot;I brought it up and told him how I felt and offered to take care of him. That is when he said he was in love with me and never wanted to leave,&quot; John said.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.petertatchell.net/age%20of%20consent/14%20gay%20boyfriend.htm Lee]'''<br /> *:Gay sex at 8 / various illegal / all consenting &quot;Lee is 14. He's been having sex with boys since the age of eight, and with men since he was 12. Lee has a serious problem. He wants a steady relationship and has been going out recently with a guy in his mid-twenties, who he met at the hairdressers. But in the eyes of the law, Lee's partner is a paedophile and Lee is a victim of child abuse. That's not, however, the way Lee sees it: &quot;I want to have a boyfriend. It's my choice. No one's abusing me. Why should we be treated like criminals?&quot;. This is a live issue for Lee because he prefers relationships with older guys. &quot;I don't get on with people my own age&quot;, says Lee. &quot;They're too immature. I like men in their 20s or early 30s. They are more experienced and serious. With them, you can get into a closer relationship than with a teenager&quot;.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://danpedo.sexualpolitik.se/english/davidgb.php#1 David]'''<br /> *:Gay sex at 13 with a man in his mid-30s. &quot;[O]ne day he started telling me about all the boys he'd had, and.., we finally ended up in the next room. We had a good time. I actually thought it was a little funny; at one point I even started to laugh. I don't know why -- I just had this weird need to laugh. [...] It was all so new. It was exciting. [...] (Interviewer: It [your relationship] all sounds very rosy...) Yes, it's really, really great.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/vigilance-vital-to-keeping-vile-paedophiles-at-bay-57221.html Unnamed 13/14-year-old boy]'''<br /> *:Claims that he consented, but others saw it very differently! [username: as@df.com, p/w: asdf] &quot;The young lad in question, who was 13 when his contact with these paedophiles began, claims that the sexual relationships he had with them were all consensual. In other words, he is stating that he was not raped, and that, to his mind at least, there was no abuse.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.logicalreality.com/openbb/read.php?TID=1785&amp;page=4 Pat Kelly]'''<br /> *:Aged 5, he helped a boy, 17, masturbate; was grateful for his invitation (Forum down. Pat was the webmaster behind the rational humanist website LogicalReality.com and the associated forums. He claims to have enjoyed hiding in a garage and masturbating the other boy, much like a schoolboy would enjoy being allowed into the staffroom - the world of adults, with which he was so fascinated).<br /> *'''[http://www.martijn.org/info/OK41_EN_1.html Andre and Dennis]'''<br /> *:Educationalist on his relationship with a primary schoolboy. &quot;Actually, it really lasted quite a while before the sexual side of our relationship started to take shape; I did not dare begin with this so soon. André does feel a bit guilty towards Dennis' mother that he never brought up the sexuality. He asks himself if she may not have figured out after all, because every now and then she has made remarks that could point to that. She does know that Dennis and André have a very physical contact with each other and kiss each other. Basically, he would like to talk about it, but, understandably, this is not easy. On being asked, Dennis had a clear opinion: 'She does not need to know!'&quot;<br /> *'''&quot;[http://www.martijn.org/page.php?id=1171983 11-year-old faggot]&quot;'''<br /> *:Talks to NAMbLA. Boys speak out. Order: Nambla, P. O. Box 174, Midtown Sta. New York, NY10018 &quot;My first statement is that I want to dispel the image that a child is an ''innocent little puppy dog''. Children have plenty of knowledge about life, the universe and everything. But adults tend not to listen to their children. This ''innocent puppy'' syndrome represses the child's social, sexual, political, economical, and emotional desires. Children are not taken seriously and are expected to conform to a society in which they can't question its validity. This has got to stop! [...] A child is a sexual being. Therefore, children should have the right to explore any aspect of sexuality they desire to engage in. Why do parents, politicians, and police (the 3 p's) feed guilt into children that are sexually active? [...] Many people have been destroyed because of intergenerational relationships, people who could offer the world a lot if they had just not been persecuted for being different. Burning witches is a pastime which is just regaining popularity in the States.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.p-loog.info/English/interview_3_b/johnny.htm Johnny]'''<br /> *:Maternally approved Gay sex at 12 &quot;(Interviewer: What are the negative aspects of your contact with Ferdinand?) Tss ... There aren't any. [...except] to explain that to my family, or to keep his orientation hidden from them.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.p-loog.info/English/interview_3_b/peter.htm Peter]'''<br /> *:Happy with pedophile contacts from an early age (around ten) &quot;(Interviewer: What are the negative aspects of your contact with Ferdinand?) I don't have any.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.p-loog.info/English/interview_3_b/stephan.htm Stephan]'''<br /> *:Descriptive account of yet another acceptable relationship, beginning at age 11. &quot;Ferdinand really picked me up in a terrific way. I have learned lots from him, I've had many experiences and I've done lots of things with Ferdinand. I have learned something about human nature from Ferdinand. And other important things in society, responsibility, how to go about with money. I still don't do that very well, you know, it just didn't stick with me. But, you know, that sort of thing. The important things in life. Before Ferdinand I didn't know about any of these things and through him I have discovered them. Also, I always say, &quot;I didn't have a childhood until I met Ferdinand. Then I received my childhood.&quot; And that is really how it was because before that I had so many problems. [...] (Interviewer: What are the negative aspects of your contact with Ferdinand?) Not one! That is very easy to say. Not one.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://web.archive.org/web/20040823204921/http://www.logicalreality.com/openbb/read.php?TID=164 Pluto]'''<br /> *:Emotional need for sex with a boy, at 56, after enjoying the reverse long ago. Pluto's early childhood experience involved showering with a grown man, and enjoying sexual contact. At the time of the act, it would have most certainly been disapproved of, but there was no moral panic in place to rob him of his self-worth. &quot;Yes, I did have sex with an adult when I was very young--10, 11, 12 years old--and I treasure and cherish the memories... [...] I was not hurt in any way by it. i only wish there had been more times when he fooled around with me.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.ipce.info/host/sandfort_87/Appendix.htm Thijs and Joop]''' (in [[Theo Sandfort]]'s ''Boys on their contacts with men'')<br /> *:Befriended by a boylover at nine, and enjoying sex &quot;(Interviewer: What do you find the unpleasant aspects of sex with Joop?) There aren't any. I don't know of any, at least. [...] (Interviewer: Can you say who starts it, when you have sex?) Either of us. Sometimes me, yeah, mostly me. But he, too, real often. [...] (Interviewer: What do you think your mother would feel about your having sex with Joop?) I guess she'd think it was dirty. She'd think a man doing that with a child wasn't normal, that you just shouldn't do it. That's what she'd say. (Interviewer: And how do you feel about her thinking that way?) Rotten stupid! Although I wouldn't tell her it was rotten stupid. I mean, what business is it of hers? It's my business what I do. [...] (Interviewer: How do you feel about your having sex with Joop?) It's just really nice. (Interviewer: It's no problem for you?) It's just like a man going to bed with a woman--I think it's exactly the same: nice. And the feelings and so on they have, I have too.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.freewebtown.com/newsstand/archive/0316.html Unnamed Indian Boy]'''<br /> *:Newspaper article about M8 + M19 sex and the victim syndrome &quot;Once I was about 15, I grew familiar with terms like paedophilia and child abuse and started to realise what I had been through. This too had a downside. I found myself in 'the victim syndrome'. I started using this incident as an excuse to endear myself to people and constantly looked at myself as victimised in relationships and emotional circumstances. This persists even today but I try to rid myself of this misery.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showpost.php?p=3730495&amp;postcount=250 Sateryn]'''<br /> *:Got a 'kick' out of illegal sex play with adults, at five, but disliked the following investigation &quot;you know the most traumatic part about being molested as a child? sitting in a room with your parents and a therapist staring at you, forcing you to take naked cloth dolls and use them to put on a puppet show to show the adults what happened to you. the physical act of it? the molestation itself? hell, it was interesting... i was 5, it was something new, and i lucked out in that it wasn't violent, just people getting their rocks off - and quite frankly i got a kick out of it, at the time.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?p=3924233#post3924233 IIDB]'''<br /> *:Another member comments about their indifference, and expands later on. &quot;I remember one incident when I was 9 or so and my uncles were 20 and 21. They brought me and a cousin who's about my age to their room and we engaged in oral sex. It was a one-time thing, but I didn't repress the memory, felt ashamed by it, or otherwise damaged by it. We didn't talk about it though, and it doesn't come to mind often. Is that counted as abuse? I had no strong feelings about it then or now. [...] I don't claim that it didn't affect me then, but it affected me in the way sexual activities affect us at that age - that of guilt of doing something I was taught is wrong or shameful. It's the same feeling I got then after masturbation and sexual experimentation with my friends, male and female.&quot;<br /> *'''[https://www.boychat.org/messages/967788.htm Hangtwenty]'''<br /> *:1950s boylove with an oversexed 12-year-old. &quot;....The most intense affair happened between 1956 and 1958.... The boy, who was 12 when it started, not only told me that I was his 'best friend', but that I was his 'only friend'...! ....Since we both lived with our parents then, and both lived in the same apartment house, we were together alot... His intensity to be sexual with me was much stronger than mine was for him..!&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,,1589948,00.html Prominent British men on fagging in their public schools]'''<br /> *:Article by the Guardian<br /> *'''[http://www.inquisition21.com/article~view~69~page_num~2.html Gerald]'''<br /> *:Convicted for loving sex with teenage boys, after they made unfortunate spousal choices.<br /> *'''[http://www.martijn.org/info/2000_002_EN.html Dirk Tieleman]'''<br /> *:A journalist claims that a slightly coercive relationship worked to his own benefit. &quot;When I was thirteen, a boy of seventeen sexually used me for a period of time with slight coercion, but I never really felt bad about that. He jacked me off and forced me to jack him off, and at first I felt uncomfortable about that, but after a few times I began to enjoy it myself and the aspect of coercion trailed off. Off course, being a thirteen-year-old boy, I found it curious that I was doing such things with another boy, but I realize now that this first sexual experience has helped me approach girls - to whom I was far more attracted - confidently and without qualms later on. That first sexual experience with a boy was, to me, the perfect introduction to sexuality. [...] In the past years, since the Dutoux scandal, I've been hearing people say all the time that any form of sex with children would automatically lead to great disturbances and 'damage the innocent child's soul beyond repair', but I feel confident in stating with absolute certainty that I haven't suffered the least bit of damage from my first sexual experiences with that older boy - not as a child, and not now. On the contrary: I have always had a very normal and healthy sex life, perhaps even because of that first experience.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_553687.html Kevin B. Johnson's Boyfriend]'''<br /> *:&quot;The second boy [15/16?] described a sexual relationship with Johnson that began when the youth was a freshman in 2004 and continued until last month. He told police, &quot;I am not a victim. I was a willing participant,&quot; according to the affidavit.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.ipce.info/booksreborn/martinson/infant/InfantAndChildSexuality.html Floyd Martinson in his book &quot;Infant and Child Sexuality&quot;]'''<br /> *:Martinson quotes another's experience: &quot;My first homosexual experience came at the age of five or six, when I would play with this boy who was at that time about sixteen. He would ask me if I wanted to go into his house for something to eat, like some cookies or something. Of course I would go. Next he would ask me if I would go into the bedroom with him. Upon entering the bedroom, he would undress and ask me to do the same. I would, probably out of fright. I distinctly remember his body being very hairy, so perhaps I underestimated his age. Anyway, after undressing, he would tell me to bend over and then he would insert his erect penis into my anal region and start thrusting back and forth. He would then stimulate my penis and want me to do the same to him. We also masturbated each other, with him reaching orgasm and myself only being stimulated. I also spent some time in oral-genital contact. I did find the whole experience quite pleasing and continued to engage in these activities for a week or two. Then, and I don't recall why, we suddenly stopped doing it completely.&quot; <br /> *'''[http://home.wanadoo.nl/ipce/library_two/rind/rind_gay_boys_app.htm Bruce Rind, quoting accounts from Savin-Williams (1997).]'''<br /> *:[B: 13, M: 22] &quot;Subject and adult brother often massaged each other. &quot;This time, however, I got a little hard and then he noted I had grown so much since he last saw me naked. He asked me jokingly if he could suck my dick. I said 'yes' so we got off on each other. He did me and then I did him. He came all over me but I did not. This lasted a month until he headed back to work. I do miss him as a friend and a brother. Was nothing romantic.&quot; Subject added, &quot;I liked it, ... felt good. I wanted to do it again and again. I already knew my brother was gay and that I was attracted to men so this did not prove or disprove that I was gay.&quot;<br /> *:[B: 15, M: 27] &quot;[It was with] the mailman, honest to God! On and off for two years. The first time was when I came to the door to get a special delivery package in my sheer designer underwear, from American Male. I was changing to go back to school. He sprouted a boner, I got hard, he grabbed mine, I grabbed his, and we were off and running. Every day I'd come home for lunch; my mother worked. I had to be quick so he'd not get docked for late deliveries. He had a real thing for redheads like me. He was very forward, connected with me, and told me how hot I was. Talked about our backgrounds. It ended when he suddenly got transferred and contact became difficult. We visited each other and had sex, but it was hard and we agreed mutually because of the distance that it was better that we be friends and not lovers&quot; (p. 172).<br /> *:[B: 12, M: 22] It lasted 9 months with his science teacher. &quot;It developed over time and was great. We became friends and I invited him over once when my parents weren't home. I practically had to force sex on him because he was afraid about losing his job. Ended when I went away for the summer and he wasn't a teacher at my school no more&quot; (p. 163). &quot; <br /> *:[B: 12, M: 35] The man was a family friend; the sex was mutually initiated, oral, off and on for 10 years (a couple of times per month), and &quot;physically great.&quot; It confused the subject that the man was married, yet was willing to have sex with him. &quot;Eventually I fell in love with him; knew I was gay but did not broadcast this; I was curious because of the age difference. Mutual oral sex happened after he fondled me; it was the first orgasm I ever had.&quot; <br /> *:[B: 13, M: 38] &quot;Family friend. I initiated on a camping trip; we were in same tent at state park; oral sex to orgasm for both of us; several times during the night; incredibly erotic, tremendous release, very pleasurable. Not real close; didn't enjoy kissing. Afterwards scary because I enjoyed it so much. Not wanting to be near him on the trip because afraid others would notice. Once per month for the next 4 years that I initiated; never talked about it; sex was all it was. Wished I was straight so the attractions would go away, because the sexual gratification was so strong.&quot; <br /> *:[B: 14, M: 26] &quot;It was with a stranger; he initiated it; it involved oral and mutual masturbation, we did it 10 more times. I was excited, was loved and in love, got affection, but was not prepared for sex. It was not so l much that I wanted his affection; I was attracted to him. This relationship lasted a week then three months later we met again and we were sexual.&quot;<br /> <br /> *'''[[Bruce Rind]] - “The Problem with Consensus Morality”, ''Archives of Sexual Behavior,'' Vol. 31, No. 6, December 2002'''<br /> <br /> ::&quot;These are based on a sampling of interviews I recently conducted on individuals who learned about me from publicity surrounding my publications and contacted me to tell their stories. These cases, involving five men who had sex as boys around age 10 with men, dispute Schmidt’s claim that there can never be sexual consensus between prepubescents and adults. The cases are cross-national, coming from Australia, Canada, England, France, and the United States. The first three men are homosexual and the last two are heterosexual. All names have been altered to preserve confidentiality.<br /> <br /> :*Case 1. Nathan, a 45-year-old Brit, began being intensely curious about adult male genitalia when he was 8. At this age, in attempt to satisfy this curiosity, he surreptitiously went into the room of his household’s sleeping man servant and fondled him under his bed covers. By age 10, his curiosity had turned into sexual arousal. He unsuccessfully tried to solicit sex from men in locker rooms. At age 11, he met a neighbor man, whom he worked on over many visits in attempt to initiate sex. Eventually, he succeeded. In his many repeats with the man over the next 2 years, Nathan reported that he was the “conductor” - he controlled the sexual interactions. While still a boy, he had several other sexual relations with men, all of which he viewed as very positive. He thinks the sex helped his sexual self-confidence: as he matured, he knew exactly what he wanted in sex, while his peers were still searching.<br /> <br /> :*Case 2. James, a 23-year-old Canadian, first felt sexually aroused by other males at age 6 and had his first sex at 8 with a peer. At 11, he befriended a neighbor man, towhom he gave many signals, hoping for sex to occur. Eventually, it did, which made him feel proud and closer to the man. Over the next 3 years, he visited the man regularly, often secretly to avoid the possibility of his parents ending the relationship. He saw the relationship as very positive and said it built his personality (e.g., greater self-confidence) and influenced many of his tastes (e.g., an appreciation for literature).<br /> <br /> :*Case 3. Daniel, a 33-year-old Frenchman, was physically affectionate with his father starting at age 6. By 8, he became sexually attracted to him. At 10, he initiated sexual fondling with him, which the father accepted. In the sexual relationship, which lasted 4 years, Daniel always initiated the sex. In retrospect, he cherished the intimacy and described the relationship as &quot;beautiful, pure, security, confidence, and love.&quot; He said it built his sexual self-confidence.<br /> <br /> :*Case 4. At age 8, Dennis, a 21-year-old American, initiated sexual contact with a man friendly with his family, whom he suspected of being involved with his older brother. Sex occurred between them for the next 2 years. He said he usually initiated the encounters because he was always ready for sex. He described the relationship as the most positive he has ever had. He saw himself as having the upper hand, because he felt he had control over the man, who went to great lengths to fulfill his wishes. He felt that his adolescent and adult sexual relations went more smoothly because of the competence he got from these early experiences. Asked how a heterosexual male could have enjoyed homosexual relations, he answered that he was attracted to sex back then, not females or males per se.<br /> <br /> :*Case 5. John, a 22-year-old Australian, first realized his sexual arousal to girls at age 8. By 9, he felt lonely and was bullied by older boys, when he met a male neighbor in his late teens. They quickly became friends, and John spent a lot of time at his house. The young man eventually initiated masturbatory sex with him. John was at first apprehensive that others would find out, but became comfortable with the sex once he felt safe from this concern. The relationship lasted 3 years. He was proud to be seen with the older male, saw him as his protector, and saw the intimacy they had as the highlight of his life. Asked if the relationship was consenting, he said yes, because he wanted it, the young man wanted it, he loved the young man, so consent meant, &quot;Yes, do it.&quot;&quot;<br /> <br /> *'''[http://www.ipce.info/ipceweb/Library/01oct01c_my_father.htm My Father and I]'''<br /> *:Positive man-boy incest is interrupted by a mother. &quot;My father molested me from the time I was two till I was 15. We would lie naked and he would play with my penis. Then he would give me oral sex. When I was old enough I then started sucking him too. He never hurt me or tried to have anal sex with me, even though I wanted him to. I had anal sex with him, a few times, once my father decided my penis was big enough. My father and I would plan things around the times where we could meet and make each other feel good. My mother found out and two months ago my father was sent to prison. What my father did to me was not rape, at all. He never hurt me. In fact, I looked forward to spending the time with him but my mother and the police don't seem to listen.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.ipce.info/ipceweb/Library/00dec18c_a_professor_speaks.htm William Percy]'''<br /> *:Article &quot;UMASS professor advocates pederasty.&quot; William Armstrong Percy III says that when he was 14, he seduced a male soldier while traveling on a train. &quot;I never got enough sex with an older man. I don't see that I was harmed at all, except being deprived of not having more,&quot; said Percy. &quot;I was already the aggressor.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.ipce.info/library_3/files/tindall.htm The male adolescent involved with a pederast becomes an adult]'''<br /> *:Several accounts. &quot;During his 11th year he began spending his spare time around a service station, where he became acquainted with a master mechanic who was then in his early 40s, married, and childless. [...] On a fishing trip, during a break on an island, they began talking about sex, which led to Denver's being fellated by the mechanic and to masturbation of the mechanic by Denver. For the next 5 years mutual fellatio occurred two or three times per week. Sexual activity with the mechanic ceased at about age 19, but a close relationship continued to exist until the mechanic's death. Denver is now 44 years of age. [...] Denver remarried and has been a valued mechanic with the same company for 20 years. He has a supervisory position and believes that his relationship with his mechanic friend helped him reach his goals. He says he would have approved a similar relationship for either of his sons, had he become aware of such a situation. He reports no desire to have sex with males since approximately age 20.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/10/19/national/main2104978.shtml Mark Foley]'''<br /> *:Former American Republican, @13y/o. &quot;The Rev. Anthony Mercieca, 72, described several encounters that he said Foley might perceive as sexually inappropriate, the Sarasota Herald-Tribune reported. They include massaging Foley while the boy was naked, skinny-dipping together at a secluded lake in Lake Worth and being nude in the same room on overnight trips. &quot;Once maybe I touched him or so ... but I didn't, it's not something you call rape or penetration or anything like that,&quot; Mercieca told West Palm Beach station WPTV in a phone interview. &quot;He seemed to like it, you know? So it was sort of more like a spontaneous thing&quot;. Mercieca said.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://richarddawkins.net/article,118,Religionrsquos-Real-Child-Abuse,Richard-Dawkins Richard Dawkins]'''<br /> *:From an article of his, that despite not being exactly sex - positive, goes as far as is 'acceptable' in playing down the impact of nonviolent, situational fondling of children by priests, whilst attacking the religious dogmas that sometimes cause so much shame after such encounters. &quot;Being fondled by the Latin master in the Squash Court was a disagreeable sensation for a nine-year-old, a mixture of embarrassment and skin-crawling revulsion, but it was certainly not in the same league as being led to believe that I, or someone I knew, might go to everlasting fire. As soon as I could wriggle off his knee, I ran to tell my friends and we had a good laugh, our fellowship enhanced by the shared experience of the same sad pedophile. I do not believe that I, or they, suffered lasting, or even temporary damage from this disagreeable physical abuse of power. Given the Latin Master’s eventual suicide, maybe the damage was all on his side.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.ipce.info/ipceweb/Statements/factoids.htm Heinz Kohut]'''<br /> *:Strozier, quoting the Psychologist on his relationship as a child: &quot;I had this private tutor, who was a very important person in my life. He would take me to museums and swimming and concerts and we had endless intellectual conversations and played complicated intellectual games and played chess together&quot; They also did sexual things together, which they both enjoyed, but Kohut felt the sex was more or less incidental. The important thing for him was the relationship. He said &quot;I was an only child. So it was in some way psychologically life-saving for me. I was very fond of this fellow.&quot; Heinz was about 10 or 11 at the time. He describes his years with his tutor as being perhaps the happiest ones in his life.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://news.scotsman.com/farrightineurope/Fortuyn-favoured-depraved.2326187.jp Pim Fortuyn]'''<br /> *:Populist, anti - immigration, homosexual Politician from the Netherlands (deceased): &quot;Fortuyn's first experience occurred when he was five years old. &quot;The Dutch soldier asks if I want to see his tent. That's what I want. I like it and they all are sleeping on the ground in a sleeping-bag. I ask if it is hard and cold to sleep on the ground. Oh no, come here. Together we crawl in his sleeping-bag. The soldier asks my name and I ask his name. “He is called Arie and he asks if I like that name. Yes, I think that's a nice name and I lie beside him, nice and warm.&quot; Fortuyn then described a close sexual encounter with the soldier before leaving his sleeping-bag &quot;to go and play outside.&quot; He added: &quot;Can I come back tomorrow? Yes, tomorrow I may come back, says Arie.&quot; A few pages later, he describes another incident: &quot;I went to the park for a walk, it was very silent and the sun was shining. On the bench sat a young fellow. I stood still, curious.&quot; Fortuyn relates another sexual encounter - this time in explicit detail. He concludes: &quot;I was frightened and ran away to my home, to my mother. Excited, I ran into the room. My mother looked at me searchingly and asked what had happened. Nothing, of course. Watch out, little man, was the only thing she said. A glass of lemonade made me calm down. Yes, that was exciting.&quot; Most telling is his appraisal of these memories. &quot;In chapter 1 about the 1950s, I wrote about my early sexual experiences, experiences that I see as an enrichment. Today, an experience like that in the park could easily lead to a complaint by parents to the police because of paedophilia, and the relevant young man would be in trouble. But why? &quot;He didn't do me any harm. On the contrary, he showed me something that was incomprehensibly exciting and I could feel and touch it, but today we are ready to interfere with complete teams of professionals. By interfering in such an irritating and grown-up way in the world of children, we make an enormous problem of something that for a child is no problem at all and is only exciting.&quot;&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.mwillett.org/Debate/viewtopic.php?p=121929#121929 Todd Nickerson]'''<br /> *:A self-declared pedophile writes: &quot;I did have a single sexual encounter with an adult when I was a child, though I would hardly describe it as traumatic or even unpleasant. My memory of being touched—and that’s all it amounted to—is that it was, at most, a little confusing since I didn’t really understand what was taking place. Not that I really minded, though. In fact, after it occurred, I went immediately to a relative and bragged to her about it.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.boylover.net/ Boylover.net member on experiences as an 11-year-old boy]'''<br /> *:&quot;We piled back into the limo and it drove us to Toronto where we went to a stage play. I don’t remember what we saw because my head was still spinning about the fact that this attractive man, one who could have any female he wanted, was in love with me and was doing all this to make this night as special as he could. After the play, we headed for home. Limo drivers must have orders to ignore whatever they see going on in the back because ours got quite an eyeful. He was treated to the sight of an eleven-year-old boy and a nineteen-year-old man acting like boyfriends. We kissed, we petted, and we worked each other into an erotic frenzy, a frenzy for which there could only be one consummation.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.boylover.net/ Boylover.net member on intercourse]'''<br /> *:&quot;I was 10 and it was with an Adult Friend. I did not, nor do I now think I was abused. (well not by my AF anyway) I liked it. We only ever did the things I wanted to do.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.helping-people.info/Treatment/sot/offender.htm#3-6a_narrative_force Frans Gieles in an article of his]'''<br /> *:&quot;Craisatie (1998, among others page 117) describes a client who, as a child, had frequented a group, which in the book was called 'a child pornography ring'. As a child, he never had seen this as being abuse. Contrarily, he said that he'd gotten a lot of love, comradeship and care, which he did not get at home. Craisatie describes it as an example of successful treatment that his client ultimately abandoned his feeling of being loved and changed it into the feeling of being abused although this occurred only gradually and very late in the treatment process [...] Ehrenreich (2004) describes a man who for nineteen years was held in a closed clinic. He denied his offense, thus refused to speak about it, thus he did not cooperate, thus year after year his stay was renewed. Then, he changed tack: he 'acknowledged' his offense, he spoke about it, he did exactly what the therapists ordered, and said that he benefited from their treatment. This was the only way to be released. The man has been released. Then it turned out that his accusers had lied about everything they had said, under high pressure of the police: there never had been an offense.&quot;<br /> *'''Boy in Dan Tsang (1981)''', &quot;The age taboo&quot;. London: Gay Men's Press. <br /> *:&quot;It's often not the man who goes out to seduce the boy, but the other way round. In my first experience, I did the seducing. . . . It is mostly the boys who go out in search of sexual satisfaction from men...&quot;<br /> *'''[http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=bta8oOuDtoI (Man?) on YouTube]'''<br /> *:An extremely detailed account that was hindered by a voice concealer. Person had a positive relationship as youngster, and has met pedophiles.<br /> *'''[http://www.sunstar.com.ph/static/net/2007/10/19/orphans.admit.clown.fondled.them.html Carlock the Clown]'''<br /> *:Some young children pleaded with authorities not to press charges against a clown who played with them sexually. &quot;Surprisingly though, when asked by American embassy officials if they wanted their &quot;Kuya Paul&quot; charged in court for abusing them, all the three kids pleaded with the officials not to file a case against Carlock. &quot;Please don't file a case against Kuya Paul. He is a good man, he is a good man,&quot; the kids said. &quot;The kids told me that they loved the man so much because he was so good to them. They said they treated the man as their father. Paul gave them candies, lollipops,&quot; Karasuyama said.&quot; The clown was eventually [http://illinoishomepage.net/content/fulltext/?cid=9747 tasered and killed by police].<br /> *'''[http://terrygeorge.co.uk/home/?topic=440 Terry George on &quot;phone sex&quot; with Michael Jackson]'''<br /> *:According to George, Michael Jackson engaged him in &quot;phone sex&quot; at the age of 13: &quot;I do not feel like a victim and I never did feel like a victim,&quot; he said. See [http://terrygeorge.co.uk/home/?folder=13 directory] for other articles.<br /> *'''[http://www.freetimes.com/stories/13/43/confessions-of-a-proud-pedophile-phillip-distasio-says-getting-caught-was-all-part-of-his-plan Phillip Distasio]'''<br /> *:Imprisoned for life; a proud pedophile activist who had a relationship with an older man at 12. &quot;Distasio describes himself as a second-generation pedophile: at the age of 12, he began a relationship with an older man, a swimming instructor named Charlie, at a boys' club in Massachusetts. He says he's known about his proclivity since age 9. &quot;To me,&quot; he says, “it is as valid as any other sexual orientation.&quot;&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.broadbandreports.com/shownews/Cleaning-Up-Tor-82218 &quot;Jay78&quot; commenting on broadbandreports.com]'''<br /> *:&quot;Also, when I was about 6 years of age I was sexually &quot;used&quot; without coercion by an adult family member in ways that today would have put that person in prison. I almost forgot about that seemingly anecdotal incident and memory until I was reminded of it by the current hysteria over that kind of thing. Compared with the other things I experienced, that was not even worth thinking of, I would never hurt that person who did that and have a good relationship with that person today.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.ipce.info/library_3/files/rivas_howard_miller.htm &quot;Howard Miller&quot; as told to Titus Rivas, Ipce]'''<br /> *:&quot;We would zip our sleeping bags together and he would tickle and massage me all over. He would tell me dirty jokes while helping me with my homework and get me aroused. Then we would masturbate together. He satisfied me and then himself or we satisfied ourselves while watching each other. I thought that he was fascinating to look at and occasionally touch but not to satisfy. [...] I have only good feelings about what happened but am sad that most people will never be able to understand that. I also wish that we didn't have to worry about each other getting into trouble with the society over what happened. [...] Because I had such a positive experience as a child I believe that I can say with absolute certainty that sometimes such relationships can be very positive. Notice I don't say that they always will be, but heck more than 50% of marriages end in divorce. Most real child abuse occurs in families. Should then marriage be outlawed?&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.boylover.net/info/scrapbook/kolya_03.html Loren Robb and Kolya - Bulletin]'''<br /> *:A man tells of his loving relationship with a young native Arctic boy who he brought up in New Zealand.<br /> *'''[http://youfoundme.org/mylife.html My Life - Youfoundme.org]'''<br /> *:A very long testimony written by a person known to a contact of Newgon.com. &quot;It was the end of that summer that I learned what real heartache felt like. Sex was never the dominating factor in my relationship with James. I wanted to fool around a lot more than he did but I just liked being with him. He knew so much about construction and getting things to work that it was like being at school all the time except it was fun. Like any kid who hears his dad tell the same joke all the time I got tired of hearing &quot;plumbings easy boy, just remember shit flows down hill&quot;. What I really didn't want to hear was the day James told me we couldn't do the sex thing anymore. I don't recall his exact words but something to the effect &quot;this just isn't right or this isn't normal&quot;. I was crushed. It (our friendship) seemed so normal and great to me that I didn't understand why he felt that way. My suffering didn't come from the hands of an abuser, my suffer came from the words of a man who feared for my wellbeing. I kept telling him I was okay with things and nothing needed to change. Change did come and even my begging wouldn't get him to monkey around with me. It happened once or twice after the big talk but it was never the same.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2372/is_4_41/ai_n9488757/pg_1 Jessica L. Stanley (Researcher)]'''<br /> *:&quot;One man, at 14 years old, researched the location of gay bars and met a man with whom he had a few sexual encounters and with whom he has maintained a friendship for nearly 20 years.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2372/is_3_39/ai_94130312 Curtis Dolezal (Researcher)]'''<br /> *:&quot;participant was 10 when he had sexual contact on 20 occasions over 3 months with a 25-year-old male neighbor. The events involved mutual masturbation and oral sex. The participant did not feel coerced or hurt and did not feel it was sexual abuse &quot;because I seduced the neighbor.&quot;<br /> *'''[[Paedophilia: The radical case|O'Carroll 1980, p.83-84]]'''<br /> *:&quot;As a boy he became sexually mature at age twelve-and-a-half. &quot;It was like the world was beginning to make sense, to take on purpose and meaning. [...] I regard my meeting with Mr. S., then aged twenty-six, as a critical turning point in my love life. Until then, sex was fun, felt good and left me only moderately guilty. Once I approached Mr.S. (Yes, I approached him) with my thirteen-year-old impatience for intimacy, he told no one, responded positively to my shaky advances (didn't even laught at me!) and simply embraced me. [...] Here was a masculine adult man (happily married even), who was interested in doing with me what I was already finding exciting with my boy-friends. And through this relationship a new dimension was added to my experience which has not occurred to me before - tenderness, affection and love. (...) This affection was, in its way, just as satisfying as the ecstatic orgasms that punctuated our days and nights together. I regard this man, this relationship as a turning point because I was never the same after knowing him for two years - I was more in tune with myself after that...&quot;.<br /> *'''[[Sex met kinderen]], pages 75-76. (Untranslated - [[Frits Bernard]])'''<br /> *:A 25 year old man tells of a relationship struck up with a gay man when he was eight. They started having sex when he was ten, something that he enjoyed. The relationship lasts until he is 18.<br /> *'''&quot;En me vriendje houdt van mij: 23 verhalen uit het leven gegrepen&quot;, edited by Ben Füss and Gorrit Goslinga (Eindhoven: Stichting Uitgeverij NVSH, 1981)'''<br /> *:&quot;We had just moved and that was how I met a nice man, as a 13-year-old. We talked a lot, in his room. He was very interested in art and possessed a lot of books with pictures of works of art and sculpture. I had little interest for this but did not want to hurt Dick's feelings. Only the pictures that showed nudity captured my interest. I also tried to hide this. [...]&quot; This interest was noticed by Dick and it led to Dick briefly caressing the boy's genitals. Dick was very cautious and tried to end it immediately. The boy was very eager to have additional sexual experiences and finally persuaded Dick to allow him a visit. One thing led to another and the end result was a tender sexual relationship that lasted for about six years. After the war he re-established a life-long friendship with Dick, though without the sexual aspect. He was there when Dick died at age 83. He adds: &quot;The value of this relationship is something I continue to cherish till this very day.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/15/science/15gajdusek.html &quot;D. Carleton Gajdusek, Who Won Nobel for Work on Brain Disease, Is Dead at 85&quot;]'''<br /> *:&quot;D. Carleton Gajdusek, a virologist who won the 1976 Nobel Prize in medicine for his work on the mysterious epidemics now known as prion diseases, died last week in Tromso, Norway. [...] In later life, Dr. Gajdusek became notorious when he was charged with molesting the many young boys he had adopted in New Guinea and Micronesia and brought to live with him in Maryland. He pleaded guilty to one charge, served a year in prison and left the United States in 1998, dividing his time between Paris, Amsterdam and Tromso. [...] He also remained unrepentant about the sexual relationships with his adopted sons, Dr. Klitzman said. He considered American law prudish and pointed out that sex with young men was normal in the cultures he studied and in the classic Greek societies at the foundation of Western civilization. His legal assistant, Dorrie Runman, who was previously married to one of his sons, John Runman, said Dr. Gajdusek’s survivors included “his adopted sons and daughters, including Yavine Borimaand Jesse Mororui-Gajdusek in the United States, and two nephews, Karl Lawrence Gajdusek and Mark Terry.” His children were legally adopted, Ms. Runman said. He put several through college and graduate or medical school. Some of them, now in their 50s, supported him during his legal troubles, while one sibling testified against him.&quot;<br /> <br /> *'''[http://www.jungsforum.net/politik/messages/159581.htm Anon, in Berliner Zeitung (Translation)]'''<br /> *:&quot;Being 52 now, I got a relationship with a man at the age of 8-9 of whom I was told later that he was a paedophile. The relationship went on until I was about 14 years old and we were lucky that it remained undiscovered and free of police enquiries. Even today, so many years later, I remember my big friend with gratitude, as he made my coming out as a gay person later on – and many other things in my life - a lot easier for me. Since then, I have met numerous people who also had [consensual] sexual relationships with adults as children and teenagers and who are not ashamed of this. It is easy to understand why such people never get in touch with abuse counseling agencies, because they really don't need such help. That's how such centres get a completely one-sided view of so-called victims of abuse.&quot;.<br /> <br /> *'''''Paedophilia - What It Means To The Child'' by [[Frits Bernard]], printed in [http://exitinterview.biz/rarities/panfull.htm PAN 3] (pp. 15 - 17)'''<br /> **&quot;I was about 13 when I had my first paedophile experience. [...] The man who brought me into touch with homosexuality and whom I even loved physically was, and still is, one of my dearest friends. I remember what a wonderful feeling it was when he satisfied me for the first time. I was not troubled in the least by worries over having done 'perverted things', probably because I had no idea of what such things were. [...] The only trouble I have had over this was when I first told my fiancée about it.&quot;<br /> **&quot;When I was seven I had contact with a man who was especially nice to me. He used to take me to his attic, sit me on his lap and play with me sexually. I thought it was very nice and enjoyed it. I always looked forward to Wednesday afternoons, the days when we saw each other. This went on for a long time. Later I had many contacts with other men, but never with boys my own age. One day I went with a waiter to his house. I was very interested and excited. We had unusually satisfying sex together. I must have been about 14. Back home I was restless and went to see him the very next day on my own initiative. We had intercourse about twenty times in the following period. [...] Now, after a good life, I can see these early contacts as very positive to my development. I would not like to have missed them and I do not envy the people who never had these opportunities.&quot;<br /> **&quot;When I was about eight years old I got to know a man in the street who thought I played very nicely. He invited me out for a bicycle ride, and later to visit his home. [...] From him I received love, which actually I had never known (not, I mean, in the way I know it at present from my wife). [...] Later, when I was ten or eleven, we had sex with each other, something I always enjoyed.&quot;<br /> **Several further accounts involving slightly older minors are available in the article.<br /> <br /> *'''Zimmerman, Ann (1994). &quot;[http://www.dallasobserver.com/1994-11-17/news/tell-mama-why-you-cry-part-i/5 'Tell Mama Why You Cry' (Part I)],&quot; ''Dallas Observer'', November 17.'''<br /> *:&quot;The tape of Tim's interview could not be located, but according to Black's notes, Tim had seen his father touch his sister on her private parts on several occasions. &quot;He stated his father tickles Lima on her private parts and she likes it. When questioned further, Tim revealed his father also touches him on his private parts...at his house...Tim stated he doesn't mind his father doing this.&quot;<br /> <br /> *'''[[Terry Leahy]]: Positively Experienced Man/Boy Sex : The Discourse of Seduction and the Social Construction of Masculinity, ''Australian and New Zealand Journal of Sociology'' 28,1 (1992) pp. 71-88.'''<br /> *:A study of eight people who perceived their childhood (under 16) contacts with adults positively.<br /> *:&quot;Derek describes his first sexual encounter with a man in the following way. He is at the park at six o’clock on the swing. A man rushes towards him and begins to strip off:<br /> *::I just sat there looking. I didn’t know what to do but sort of thrilling. I looked, gawked, sort of ... I didn’t mind, I just kept on swinging on the swing. And I wasn’t scared or anything and he just come up to me and said ’Oh, how are ya?’ and I said ’Oh, not too bad’. In other words, coming on to me. And he turned around and said, ’Oh, what’s your name?’ And I’d tell him my name ’cause I wasn’t scared or anything because it was in a park and it was about six o’clock, really early, six, you know what I mean. And he just said, ’Would you like a drink?’ and I said ’No’. Then I started getting a bit nervy, nervous sort of thing. I knew, I must ... I knew in a way that he’d do something. So I just sat there, you know, and he said, ’Oh, would you like to come for a drive?’ Well I rushed him! So I just went for a drive with him and there we got off. First time, we got off ... I wanted to try it out. So I tried it. It was a really good feeling. Ever since then I kept on going.<br /> *:Here the narrative of this event begins with Derek sitting innocently on the swing. A man appears with obvious sexual intentions. Derek is instantly thrilled and takes voyeuristic pleasure in seeing him undress. He is not scared to go with the man and in fact ’rushes’ him. The sex is great and he has an orgasm. Even anal sex, though a bit uncomfortable at first, is enjoyed. All this has happened because he wanted to try it out and having done so he is eager to repeat the experience. This is typical of the discourse of male adolescent sexuality - spontaneous, adventurous, sexual pleasure is guaranteed, and casual contact is exciting. Derek presents himself as an active and initiating party. The events that take place are in reponse to his emerging self constituted sexual desire. All this works against any interpretation of Derek as a victim of homosexual seduction. Summarising his attitude to these sexual encounters on another occasion he concludes:<br /> *::I mean to say, sex is sex, you gotta, you know, well ... The way I feel, what would you do without it? It’s just something normal. Sex is just normal for everybody. Not just for me, for everybody and to do without ... I reckon it would be pretty hard to do without it so you’re just going to have to think.<br /> *:[...]<br /> *:Christopher’s interview provides a thorough discussion of these issues. At the time when he was interviewed he was in his mid thirties. His relationship with an adult gay man, George, began when he was about nine years old and lasted till he was eighteen. In a wry comment on the discourse of seduction he offered this remark:<br /> *::So I suppose then, you want to know now if I’m fucked up now sexually because of this terrible trauma of my childhood? Well - no. Umm. My main thrust - pun! - is heterosexual but ahh, I still occasionally sleep with males but when I say occasionally I mean very occasionally.<br /> *:[...]<br /> *:In particular, in discussing the various sexual activities in which he was engaged, Christopher stresses the physical pleasures of various acts and argues that his initial reservations about particular practices (oral sex, anal sex) were broken down as he received physical pleasure from these activities and came to feel that it was only fair to reciprocate.&quot;<br /> <br /> *'''[[Frits Bernard|Bernard, F.]] (1979). &quot;[http://exitinterview.biz/rarities/pan/htmfiles/pan3p13.htm Paedophilia: What it means to the child]&quot; ''[[PAN]]'', November 1979.'''<br /> <br /> :*A heterosexual male recalls at age 24: &quot;I had my first sexual contact with an older man in Rotterdam... It was nothing more than each of us quickly masturbating each other, looking shyly around us. Once this corner was turned a lot of other experiences followed. I can't say much about them, just sex and nothing more. One of the reasons nothing lasted was that the men were dead scared of being trapped. The iniative always came from me. I used to wear my shortest and cutest shorts and stroll across the market squares and through the busiest streets of Rotterdam until I saw someone I thought was 'like that' and then I allowed myself to be 'seduced'. That went on until I was 17. [...] I have no regrets about this period. I am only sorry that I never had what I was really looking for: an older friend with whom I could enjoy not only sex but all kinds of things, someone who could teach me about everything.&quot;<br /> <br /> :*An engaged, heterosexual male recalls at age 23: &quot;I was about 13 when I had my first paedophile experience (...) The man who brought me into touch with homosexuality and whom I even loved physically was, and still is, one of my dearest friends. I remember what a wonderful feeling it was when he satisfied me for the first time.&quot; Despite this, the man makes it clear that he does not approve of pedophilic contact, as it happens today.<br /> <br /> :*A heterosexual adult recalls at age 37: &quot;I must have been 14 [or] 15 at the time of my first sexual encounter with a man of about 30. I enjoyed these experiences. (...) I am now married and have four children. People with this inclination should fit into society and our society should accept this as natural. But it will be a very long time before this happens. (...) My earlier contacts of this kind were so upsetting to my parents that, at the time, I always had the feeling that I was dong something wrong. Now I see it as part of a personal experience which I would not like to see removed from my life.&quot;<br /> <br /> :*A gay man recalls at 67, the following contact with a 35-year-old man: &quot;When I was 7, I had contact with a man who was especially nice to me. He used to take me to his attic, had me sit on his lap and we had sexual contact with each other. I really found it pleasant and enjoyed it. I was always looking forward to Wednesday afternoons, the days we saw each other. This went on for a long period of time. [...] Now, as a nearly 68-year-old man, who has had a good life, I regard these contacts I used to have as very positive for my development. I would not have wanted to miss them, and I do not envy people who have never not had these opportunities. [...] Later I had many contacts with other men, but never with boys my own age. One day I went with a waiter to his house. I was very interested and excited. We had unusually satisfying sex together. I must have been about 14. Back home I was restless and went to see him the very next day on my own initiative. We had intercourse about twenty times in the following period.&quot;<br /> <br /> :*A straight man recalls at 25, the following relationship: &quot;When I was about eight years old I got to know a man in the street who thought I played very nicely. He invited me out for a bicycle ride, and later to visit his home (...) Gradually, we got to know each other... and I came to realise that he was homosexual. This did not shock me; I just wanted to know more about it. (...) From him I received love, which actually I had never known (...) Later, when I was ten or eleven, we had sex with each other, some-thing I always enjoyed. That lasted until I was eighteen, when I started going steady with a girl. When I became engaged I was able to tell my future wife with an easy mind about my youthful experiences. She could appreciate the whole thing very well. [We have] an especially good marriage, an especially fine sexual relationship, and an especially dear little daughter.&quot;<br /> <br /> *'''Wolf Vogel (author) ''[http://www.ipce.info/host/rivas/boys_men/bjorn.htm Heimliche Liebe: Eros zwischen Knabe und Mann]'', 1997. Translator writes of the following translation: &quot;includes the remarkable case of Björn and Jan, located in a major town in the North of Germany.&quot;'''<br /> <br /> :*&quot;When Björn (32) was a young boy, he met his adult friend Jan (45) and they still had a sexual relationship at the time of the interview. As a 10-year-old boy, Björn felt attracted to social worker Jan because of the latter's revolutionary ideas and Björn tried to provoke him with a lot of questions and remarks about sexuality. One day, when Björn was eleven and a half, they happened to meet near the town's riverbank. Björn tried to get Jan sexually interested in him and when they met at Jan's place he finally succeeded. Björn really wanted Jan to penetrate him, but Jan declined the offer and it took Björn a year to convince him that he was not afraid of getting physically hurt in the process. The boy really enjoyed this type of penetrative sexual contact and now that he's an adult, he's still doing it quite often with Jan. He remarks that if one wishes to speak of seduction in this relationship, it was him who was the seducing party. Their relationship has always stayed a secret for the people in their environment. Jan used to help Björn with the problems he was having with his parents, and also with his educational and professional progress.&quot;<br /> <br /> *'''Seth Mydans (author) ''[http://www.nytimes.com/1989/02/05/world/in-a-philippine-town-child-prostitution-despite-protests-is-a-way-of-life.html In a Philippine Town, Child Prostitution, Despite Protests, Is a Way of Life]'', 1989.'''<br /> <br /> :*&quot;Drive into this green and quiet town [Pangsanjan, Philippines] 40 miles southeast of Manila and groups of men will run alongside your car, banging on the windows, offering a choice of the local attractions: A boat ride to the scenic waterfall or a child prostitute. (...) When Mrs. Zaide's group, the Council of Citizens for the Protection of Children, pasted up posters warning against prostitution, the citizens of Pagsanjan tore them down. Stones were thrown at the houses of council members. When the Immigration Commission a year ago arrested 22 foreigners who were engaged in prostitution rings, some parents, the recipients of their largesse, testified in their defense. (...) Estafania Aldaba-Lim, a former minister of social welfare who has studied the Pagsanjan situation, said local residents discovered the easy money in male prostitution when American filmmakers came to town to shoot scenes for &quot;Apocalypse Now.&quot; &quot;I suppose some gays with the crew fell in love with the young macho boatmen,'&quot; she said, &quot;and then it went to much younger boys, down to 9, 10, 11 years old, and the whole town got in on it.&quot; (...) But, Miss Zaide said child prostitution continues. One Swiss national, she said, married the sister of his 15-year-old male lover and has applied to return home not with his wife but with his new brother-in-law. &quot;The family is proud of it,&quot; Miss Zaide said. It flaunts his gifts, which include one of the better residences in town. '''At school, according to another member of Miss Zaide's group, children proudly display the new clothes, pocket money and other gifts that they receive from their patrons, tempting other children to follow their example.''' [emphasis ours] One Third of Boys Are Involved. Miss Zaide estimated that one-third of the youngsters have taken part in the sex trade in this town of 22,000, where 65 percent of the population is below the age of 18. When teachers confront the parents of these children, she said, the parents ask them, &quot;What can you give us in exchange? Can you pay for my child's schooling? Can you give him an allowance? Can you build a home for us?&quot;&quot;<br /> <br /> *'''&quot;Neil&quot; in Birkett, D. ''[http://www.deabirkett.com/pages/journalism_film/film/monsters_with_human_faces.htm The Devil Amongst Us - accompanying article]'', 1997.'''<br /> <br /> :*&quot;During my research I met Neil, a gay man now aged 40, who enjoyed having sex with adult men from the age of nine. &quot;It seems to be politically correct, even within the gay movement, to be anti-paedophile. But when I ask gay male friends when they first had sex they say, 'Oh, ten, 11, 12, with a bloke down the road who was 22.' He was probably a paedophile!&quot;&quot;<br /> <br /> *'''&quot;Dan&quot; in Newberger, Eli H.,''Bringing Up a Boy''(Perseus Books, 1999)<br /> * &quot;In ninth grade, Dan began sexual activity with men, some in their twenties, others in their thirties or older. He meets many of them in gay clubs. He also feels confident initiating contact with strangers in public, in stores, for example.&quot; <br /> <br /> [[Category:Official Encyclopedia]][[Category:Testimony]][[Category:Testimony: Contact]]<br /> <br /> [[fr:Témoignages: Adulte mâle avec mineur mâle]]</div>

StephenJames http://newgon77idcem62vqlfge3jkidjenvf6afhxwr2napk4kpp2labjbdid.onion/wiki/index.php?title=Testimony:_Adult_Male_with_Minor_Male&diff=5865 2009-09-17T10:39:52Z

<p>StephenJames: </p> <hr /> <div>{{Template:A&amp;T}}<br /> *'''[http://dir.salon.com/story/mwt/feature/2002/07/22/coming_of_age/ Minor report] by David Tuller in Salon.com, July 22, 2002.'''<br /> **An aircraft maintenance worker describes his first experience at thirteen with a man of about 30 who had hired him to do yard work. After inviting him inside and showing him pictures of men wrestling, the man “started rubbing my crotch, and I was both nervous and really excited by it.” He went on to seek out other significantly older men. “I never felt used. I really wanted it, and except for the first time I always felt like the aggressor.” <br /> **Noted gay novelist Edmund White talks about picking up men at Chicago beaches and public restrooms from the age of 13 or 14. “I was very oversexed, absolutely driven wild by desire. ... The first one was a handsome architect, who actually had children older than me. I was absolutely fascinated by him, and I seduced him. I followed him to his car, walked right up to him and started talking to him. My mother was away and I said, ‘Come back to my apartment.’ And it was terrific.” <br /> ** In an essay about sex between adolescents and adults, David Tuller relates his own desire as a 15-year-old &quot;tormented homosexual wannabe.&quot; Upon seeing the movie Summer of '42, in which a young widow &quot;pulls Hermie into her arms and, in her grief, into her bed,&quot; he says, &quot;I cried while I watched, ... because I so yearned for the tender moments that Hermie found.&quot; <br /> **A gay health care professional in his 50s discusses how the relationship he pursued with a family friend in his early 20s helped him learn at the age of fifteen that men could care for each other. &quot;It was clear that it certainly felt good to both of us. ... In some way it was a real lifesaver, because it made me feel that love and affection and closeness and sex would be possible in my life. ... when we were together, it was like a little oasis where we could be ourselves.&quot; <br /> ** A businessman in Denver recounts his two-year relationship, from age fifteen, with his 29-year-old boss at the restaurant where he worked. &quot;It was frightening and invigorating and I felt clumsy and awkward. But he was playful and fun and very gentle. I never felt coerced. As foreign as it was to me I was very open to it. Afterwards, I felt good, like I'd experienced something I'd wanted to for a long time.&quot; Speaking of how it affected his life at the time, he says, &quot;I wasn't an awkward, out-of-place kid anymore. I felt appreciated for being gay, instead of being an outcast and made fun of. Suddenly I had this new self-confidence. I didn't have to hate myself for being gay.&quot; <br /> *'''[http://www.boychat.org/messages/932440.htm A long and varied career by Ambar] on BoyChat, July 2005.'''<br /> *:A man recounts his earliest sexual experiences, including with his best friend’s father at eight years old: “He became my second very, very, very best friend and so began a wonderful, loving relationship. I still adore that man :-)” <br /> *'''[http://newgon.com/CPP/HFP-072.htm Letter from John] in HFP Mailbag and [http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/13023005/ Sexual Abuse from a Victim] by John Tate, December 7, 2004.'''<br /> *:A 17-year-old reports on the anguish in his life stemming from sexual activity with his grandfather from age seven and attributes the worst aspects to society’s attitudes about it: “I think if this sort of thing was tolerated I would not have felt so fucking alienated, so hated, as a child, I would have not been an outcast.” <br /> *'''[http://www.boychat.org/messages/932397.htm count me IN !!! :))] by siao on BoyChat, July 2005. '''<br /> *:A man recounts his first experience of sex with an adult at seven years old: “suddenly fun was &quot;in&quot; … gosh, what was that twirling feeling which went all thru me ???” He also speaks of such encounters with many other men, saying, “NOT A SINGLE ONE EVER ABUSED ME ! I was free to say 'YES!!!!' and also knew how to say 'no' if there were ever anything I might not want.” <br /> *'''[http://www.bostonmagazine.com/articles/boy_crazy/ Boy Crazy] in Boston Magazine, May 2001'''<br /> **Famous poet Allen Ginsberg commented on the 1977 pedophilia scandal in Revere, Massachusetts, &quot;I had sex when I was 8 with a man in the back of my grandfather’s candy store in Revere, and I turned out okay.&quot; <br /> **Best-selling Canadian author James Dubro was 14 in 1961 when he started having sex with a 22-year-old college student who remains his friend 40 years later. <br /> *'''[http://newgon.com/CPP/BC-146796.htm My Story: A story of a boy] by Elf on BoyChat, October 1998.'''<br /> *:A man in his mid-20s tells his story. When he was nine or ten years old, he responded willingly to the seduction of a 16- or 17-year-old neighbor boy. They had a passionate love affair for over a year until they were discovered and his father beat him savagely. The older boy’s family disappeared from town. This man wrote of that affair as the best thing that ever happened to him and attributed his deep problems at the time of writing to the brutal way it was torn away from him. <br /> *'''&quot;[http://newgon.com/CPP/Spike/xaboutme.htm Spike]&quot; on his website'''<br /> *:A 15-year-old boy writes about his adult lover: “When I was 10, I found myself a mentor, a wonderful old man that needed me as much as I needed him. … J has been the best thing that could ever have happened to me. Everything I am today I owe to J. He and Mom are both educated people who believe that I must prepare myself for adulthood by learning how to learn, how to think for myself, and how to believe in myself … Mom sees the results of my association with J, and she could not be more pleased.” <br /> *'''[http://newgon.com/CPP/Hoby-mod.htm Hoby] on his website'''<br /> *:A boy proclaims his interest in adult men and says, “You should be able to love whoever you want when you want and as long as you both happy it dont matter what anyone else thinks.” <br /> *'''''[http://newgon.com/CPP/Arlekin/complain-mod.htm My Complaints]'' by David Alejandro, December 1996, on his website.'''<br /> *:A 13-year-old boy makes an impassioned plea for sexual freedom: “I want to love and be loved by whom I want. For the last two years I have an older friend. I am not gay, I like girls. He doesn’t, but we understand each other very well. It is nobody’s business what we do or don’t do. … Stop protecting me, please!” (Note: His site history page indicated that he was 13 when he posted this page and 15½ in June 1999. The English index pages said that he lived in the “Land of the Incas.”)<br /> *'''[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voor_een_verloren_soldaat Voor Een Verloren Soldaat] (For A Lost Soldier), autobiographical novel by Rudi van Dantzig, 1986 and 1992 movie made from it'''<br /> *:Acclaimed ballet dancer and choreographer Rudi van Dantzig tells the story of his brief romance at twelve with a Canadian soldier at the end of World War II. <br /> *'''[http://newgon.com/CPP/Stefan/index.htm Stefan] on his web page'''<br /> *:A 12-year-old in Holland says, “I will tell you about my BEST friend. He’s 28 and works at home. I love him the most in the world and he loves me. He says I’m the cutest boy in the world.” <br /> *'''[http://www.scottohara.com/obit.htm Scott O'Hara], quoted in his obituary at the Spirit of Stonewall Press Conference, New York City, June 24, 1994.'''<br /> *:The publisher of Steam magazine says, “When I was 12 and 13 years old I would have joined NAMBLA in a minute, because I knew I was gay and I wanted to go out and get laid, not just read The Gay Mystique all my life; I needed personal contact.” <br /> *'''Ik Wilde Meer! (“[http://www.martijn.org/info/Martijn/martijn02.pdf I Want More!]”) in Martijn (PDF, 6 Mb), December 1980, page 16-18, in Dutch.'''<br /> *:A married man reports on his 6-year-long relationship with a man who showed him erotic art and masturbated him. The relationship later turned platonic and the younger man was at the older’s deathbed 37 years later. <br /> *'''[http://www.boylover.net/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/10/194.html tribute to frank] by mick15 on BoyLover.net, December 7, 2005.'''<br /> *:A teenaged boy describes his loving, sexual relationship with his soccer mentor, who had recently died. <br /> *'''I want to speak out!!!!!!!! by “15 yr old boy” on BoyChat, September 2000.'''<br /> *:A 15-year-old boy writes about his adult lover: “He is the best thing that has ever happened to me. … I wish this world would just open its eyes and see that relationships like this are healthy and good for boys my age—but yes only if the boy wants the relationship.” <br /> *'''[http://newgon.com/CPP/Adam-mod.htm There is Magic Out There] by Joshua Adam on his website.'''<br /> *:A 13-year-old in the 10th grade writes about the emotional support he gets from his older friend, Angel, who is helping him overcome the hatred cast upon him by his family and school for liking other boys. Angel and Adam have never met in person and do not plan to do so. Their relationship is entirely nonsexual, although it is definitely one of love and mentorship.<br /> *'''Author [http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1588180395 Kirk Read]'''<br /> *: In his 2001 book, How I Learned to Snap, Kirk Read tells of his sexual experiences with adults starting at age 13, which he says saved his life. &quot;Intergenerational sex saved my life&quot;, &quot;American culture's only frame of reference for sex with minors is abuse. I don't deny that abuse occurs, but this should be addressed on a case-by-case basis. A blanket approach that criminalizes all sex between adults and minors undermines the fact that for many gay teenagers, sex with an adult can be a beautiful, life-changing experience. It was for me&quot;, &quot;I sought out sex with older men time and time again as a teenager. I had fumbling sexual encounters with other kids as a preadolescent, but they always left me unsatisfied. None of us knew what we were doing, and our shame and fear overwhelmed any joy of discovery&quot; (pp.57-59) [http://www.nambla.org/snap.htm Reviewed] by NAMbLA.<br /> <br /> *'''[http://newgon.com/CPP/Shane-mod.htm Shane] on his website'''<br /> *:A 14-year-old gay boy in Australia says, “I have one really good adult friend that knows about my sexuality, … Steve has never tried anything sexual with me, although I often wish he would.” <br /> *'''[http://www.boychat.org/messages/932399.htm Under My House . Tent Sleeping . Neighbors Bedroom] by Linca on BoyChat, July 2005. '''<br /> *:A man recounts his first experiences of sex, including with an adult neighbor at 14: “[He] did with me … what he had been wanting to do with me since I was 8 years old. We are friends to this day.” <br /> *'''Two posts by hyacinth on BoyChat: [http://newgon.com/CPP/BC-663921.htm May 2002] [1] and [http://www.boychat.org/messages/932570.htm July 2005] [2]'''<br /> *:A man describes his childhood sexual experiences with adults. The first was anal sex with a benedictine monk at 14 years old: “I was't stupid, at 14 I knew my way around … He was very nice and very gentle, and I liked him alot.” [1] Next was a relationship that lasted for a year and a half with a man and his two sons. [2] <br /> *'''[http://newgon.com/CPP/Benjamin-LettersOfBoy.htm Letters of a Loving Boy--Excerpted letters and diaries of boys], edited by Jarod Benjamin, 1997.'''<br /> *:A 14-year-old boy wrote a series of love letters, unsuccessfully courting an adult friend for a more intimate relationship. <br /> *'''[http://newgon.com/CPP/Mogenic-LikeGreece.htm Just Like Greece? — Gay Teen Dates Septuagenarian], an interview of “:John ”: by Brandon K. Thorp in ''Mogenic'', June 2006.'''<br /> *:A 22-year-old man talks about the 67-year-old man he met at the museum where they were both volunteering when he was 13. A friendship emerged based on unusually common interests for such a pair. The relationship evolved into mentoring and eventually romance, which became sexual two years later. They remained occasionally intimate for five years while the teenager also began to explore relationships with his age peers. Looking back on the man’s death when he was 20, he says, “He enhanced the quality of my youth, and his influence will likely enhance the quality of my entire adult life. And I enhanced his old age. We both got something out of it.” <br /> *'''[http://newgon.com/CPP/Aaron/index.htm Aaron], on his website'''<br /> *:A 15-year-old boy talks about his adult lover on his website. <br /> *'''[http://www.nambla.org/boys.htm Boys Speak Out on Man/Boy Love], NAMBLA, 1981.'''<br /> *:NAMBLA published a book with first-person accounts of 29 boys about their relationships with older men. Titles include ''The Best Thing That Ever Happened to Me'' by Greg, 16, ''It Shouldn’t Be a Crime to Make Love'' by Bryan, 12, ''If It Wasn’t for Mark I’d Probably Be Dead Today'' by Carl, 14, ''I Need My Lovers'' by Tyrone, 16, and ''It Was Me Who Started It'' by Frank, 15. <br /> *'''The perspective of a loving boy in [http://newgon.com/CPP/Benjamin-BoysAndBoylovers.htm On Boys and Boylovers] by Jarod Benjamin, 1997.'''<br /> *:Jarod Benjamin’s 1997 study of male-male pedophilia includes a section that reports on pedophile relationships from the point of view of boys in them. Reference is also made to 620 quotes of boys in Edward Brongersma’s [http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1557410038 Loving Boys].<br /> *'''[http://www.thinkandask.com/2006/042106-john.html Baseball, Boys, One Man on Illegal Love]'''<br /> *:A boy happily participates in a sexual and emotional relationship with an older man beginning at age 12. &quot;Jesse is less than half John's age and turned 15-years-old in April, but the boy is not his son. Jesse &quot;is my lover,&quot; John said, &quot;but the feelings are mutual, this is a consensual relationship.&quot; John met Jesse (not his real name) when the boy was homeless three years ago. [...] In Jesse's own words, &quot;John knows me, he's here inside my head already, I mean all along. He is my dad, boyfriend, best friend, brother, all in one. He's great,&quot; he grins as he chats with a friend on the office computer. [...] &quot;I brought it up and told him how I felt and offered to take care of him. That is when he said he was in love with me and never wanted to leave,&quot; John said.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.petertatchell.net/age%20of%20consent/14%20gay%20boyfriend.htm Lee]'''<br /> *:Gay sex at 8 / various illegal / all consenting &quot;Lee is 14. He's been having sex with boys since the age of eight, and with men since he was 12. Lee has a serious problem. He wants a steady relationship and has been going out recently with a guy in his mid-twenties, who he met at the hairdressers. But in the eyes of the law, Lee's partner is a paedophile and Lee is a victim of child abuse. That's not, however, the way Lee sees it: &quot;I want to have a boyfriend. It's my choice. No one's abusing me. Why should we be treated like criminals?&quot;. This is a live issue for Lee because he prefers relationships with older guys. &quot;I don't get on with people my own age&quot;, says Lee. &quot;They're too immature. I like men in their 20s or early 30s. They are more experienced and serious. With them, you can get into a closer relationship than with a teenager&quot;.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://danpedo.sexualpolitik.se/english/davidgb.php#1 David]'''<br /> *:Gay sex at 13 with a man in his mid-30s. &quot;[O]ne day he started telling me about all the boys he'd had, and.., we finally ended up in the next room. We had a good time. I actually thought it was a little funny; at one point I even started to laugh. I don't know why -- I just had this weird need to laugh. [...] It was all so new. It was exciting. [...] (Interviewer: It [your relationship] all sounds very rosy...) Yes, it's really, really great.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/vigilance-vital-to-keeping-vile-paedophiles-at-bay-57221.html Unnamed 13/14-year-old boy]'''<br /> *:Claims that he consented, but others saw it very differently! [username: as@df.com, p/w: asdf] &quot;The young lad in question, who was 13 when his contact with these paedophiles began, claims that the sexual relationships he had with them were all consensual. In other words, he is stating that he was not raped, and that, to his mind at least, there was no abuse.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.logicalreality.com/openbb/read.php?TID=1785&amp;page=4 Pat Kelly]'''<br /> *:Aged 5, he helped a boy, 17, masturbate; was grateful for his invitation (Forum down. Pat was the webmaster behind the rational humanist website LogicalReality.com and the associated forums. He claims to have enjoyed hiding in a garage and masturbating the other boy, much like a schoolboy would enjoy being allowed into the staffroom - the world of adults, with which he was so fascinated).<br /> *'''[http://www.martijn.org/info/OK41_EN_1.html Andre and Dennis]'''<br /> *:Educationalist on his relationship with a primary schoolboy. &quot;Actually, it really lasted quite a while before the sexual side of our relationship started to take shape; I did not dare begin with this so soon. André does feel a bit guilty towards Dennis' mother that he never brought up the sexuality. He asks himself if she may not have figured out after all, because every now and then she has made remarks that could point to that. She does know that Dennis and André have a very physical contact with each other and kiss each other. Basically, he would like to talk about it, but, understandably, this is not easy. On being asked, Dennis had a clear opinion: 'She does not need to know!'&quot;<br /> *'''&quot;[http://www.martijn.org/page.php?id=1171983 11-year-old faggot]&quot;'''<br /> *:Talks to NAMbLA. Boys speak out. Order: Nambla, P. O. Box 174, Midtown Sta. New York, NY10018 &quot;My first statement is that I want to dispel the image that a child is an ''innocent little puppy dog''. Children have plenty of knowledge about life, the universe and everything. But adults tend not to listen to their children. This ''innocent puppy'' syndrome represses the child's social, sexual, political, economical, and emotional desires. Children are not taken seriously and are expected to conform to a society in which they can't question its validity. This has got to stop! [...] A child is a sexual being. Therefore, children should have the right to explore any aspect of sexuality they desire to engage in. Why do parents, politicians, and police (the 3 p's) feed guilt into children that are sexually active? [...] Many people have been destroyed because of intergenerational relationships, people who could offer the world a lot if they had just not been persecuted for being different. Burning witches is a pastime which is just regaining popularity in the States.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.p-loog.info/English/interview_3_b/johnny.htm Johnny]'''<br /> *:Maternally approved Gay sex at 12 &quot;(Interviewer: What are the negative aspects of your contact with Ferdinand?) Tss ... There aren't any. [...except] to explain that to my family, or to keep his orientation hidden from them.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.p-loog.info/English/interview_3_b/peter.htm Peter]'''<br /> *:Happy with pedophile contacts from an early age (around ten) &quot;(Interviewer: What are the negative aspects of your contact with Ferdinand?) I don't have any.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.p-loog.info/English/interview_3_b/stephan.htm Stephan]'''<br /> *:Descriptive account of yet another acceptable relationship, beginning at age 11. &quot;Ferdinand really picked me up in a terrific way. I have learned lots from him, I've had many experiences and I've done lots of things with Ferdinand. I have learned something about human nature from Ferdinand. And other important things in society, responsibility, how to go about with money. I still don't do that very well, you know, it just didn't stick with me. But, you know, that sort of thing. The important things in life. Before Ferdinand I didn't know about any of these things and through him I have discovered them. Also, I always say, &quot;I didn't have a childhood until I met Ferdinand. Then I received my childhood.&quot; And that is really how it was because before that I had so many problems. [...] (Interviewer: What are the negative aspects of your contact with Ferdinand?) Not one! That is very easy to say. Not one.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://web.archive.org/web/20040823204921/http://www.logicalreality.com/openbb/read.php?TID=164 Pluto]'''<br /> *:Emotional need for sex with a boy, at 56, after enjoying the reverse long ago. Pluto's early childhood experience involved showering with a grown man, and enjoying sexual contact. At the time of the act, it would have most certainly been disapproved of, but there was no moral panic in place to rob him of his self-worth. &quot;Yes, I did have sex with an adult when I was very young--10, 11, 12 years old--and I treasure and cherish the memories... [...] I was not hurt in any way by it. i only wish there had been more times when he fooled around with me.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.ipce.info/host/sandfort_87/Appendix.htm Thijs and Joop]''' (in [[Theo Sandfort]]'s ''Boys on their contacts with men'')<br /> *:Befriended by a boylover at nine, and enjoying sex &quot;(Interviewer: What do you find the unpleasant aspects of sex with Joop?) There aren't any. I don't know of any, at least. [...] (Interviewer: Can you say who starts it, when you have sex?) Either of us. Sometimes me, yeah, mostly me. But he, too, real often. [...] (Interviewer: What do you think your mother would feel about your having sex with Joop?) I guess she'd think it was dirty. She'd think a man doing that with a child wasn't normal, that you just shouldn't do it. That's what she'd say. (Interviewer: And how do you feel about her thinking that way?) Rotten stupid! Although I wouldn't tell her it was rotten stupid. I mean, what business is it of hers? It's my business what I do. [...] (Interviewer: How do you feel about your having sex with Joop?) It's just really nice. (Interviewer: It's no problem for you?) It's just like a man going to bed with a woman--I think it's exactly the same: nice. And the feelings and so on they have, I have too.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.freewebtown.com/newsstand/archive/0316.html Unnamed Indian Boy]'''<br /> *:Newspaper article about M8 + M19 sex and the victim syndrome &quot;Once I was about 15, I grew familiar with terms like paedophilia and child abuse and started to realise what I had been through. This too had a downside. I found myself in 'the victim syndrome'. I started using this incident as an excuse to endear myself to people and constantly looked at myself as victimised in relationships and emotional circumstances. This persists even today but I try to rid myself of this misery.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showpost.php?p=3730495&amp;postcount=250 Sateryn]'''<br /> *:Got a 'kick' out of illegal sex play with adults, at five, but disliked the following investigation &quot;you know the most traumatic part about being molested as a child? sitting in a room with your parents and a therapist staring at you, forcing you to take naked cloth dolls and use them to put on a puppet show to show the adults what happened to you. the physical act of it? the molestation itself? hell, it was interesting... i was 5, it was something new, and i lucked out in that it wasn't violent, just people getting their rocks off - and quite frankly i got a kick out of it, at the time.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?p=3924233#post3924233 IIDB]'''<br /> *:Another member comments about their indifference, and expands later on. &quot;I remember one incident when I was 9 or so and my uncles were 20 and 21. They brought me and a cousin who's about my age to their room and we engaged in oral sex. It was a one-time thing, but I didn't repress the memory, felt ashamed by it, or otherwise damaged by it. We didn't talk about it though, and it doesn't come to mind often. Is that counted as abuse? I had no strong feelings about it then or now. [...] I don't claim that it didn't affect me then, but it affected me in the way sexual activities affect us at that age - that of guilt of doing something I was taught is wrong or shameful. It's the same feeling I got then after masturbation and sexual experimentation with my friends, male and female.&quot;<br /> *'''[https://www.boychat.org/messages/967788.htm Hangtwenty]'''<br /> *:1950s boylove with an oversexed 12-year-old. &quot;....The most intense affair happened between 1956 and 1958.... The boy, who was 12 when it started, not only told me that I was his 'best friend', but that I was his 'only friend'...! ....Since we both lived with our parents then, and both lived in the same apartment house, we were together alot... His intensity to be sexual with me was much stronger than mine was for him..!&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,,1589948,00.html Prominent British men on fagging in their public schools]'''<br /> *:Article by the Guardian<br /> *'''[http://www.inquisition21.com/article~view~69~page_num~2.html Gerald]'''<br /> *:Convicted for loving sex with teenage boys, after they made unfortunate spousal choices.<br /> *'''[http://www.martijn.org/info/2000_002_EN.html Dirk Tieleman]'''<br /> *:A journalist claims that a slightly coercive relationship worked to his own benefit. &quot;When I was thirteen, a boy of seventeen sexually used me for a period of time with slight coercion, but I never really felt bad about that. He jacked me off and forced me to jack him off, and at first I felt uncomfortable about that, but after a few times I began to enjoy it myself and the aspect of coercion trailed off. Off course, being a thirteen-year-old boy, I found it curious that I was doing such things with another boy, but I realize now that this first sexual experience has helped me approach girls - to whom I was far more attracted - confidently and without qualms later on. That first sexual experience with a boy was, to me, the perfect introduction to sexuality. [...] In the past years, since the Dutoux scandal, I've been hearing people say all the time that any form of sex with children would automatically lead to great disturbances and 'damage the innocent child's soul beyond repair', but I feel confident in stating with absolute certainty that I haven't suffered the least bit of damage from my first sexual experiences with that older boy - not as a child, and not now. On the contrary: I have always had a very normal and healthy sex life, perhaps even because of that first experience.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_553687.html Kevin B. Johnson's Boyfriend]'''<br /> *:&quot;The second boy [15/16?] described a sexual relationship with Johnson that began when the youth was a freshman in 2004 and continued until last month. He told police, &quot;I am not a victim. I was a willing participant,&quot; according to the affidavit.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.ipce.info/booksreborn/martinson/infant/InfantAndChildSexuality.html Floyd Martinson in his book &quot;Infant and Child Sexuality&quot;]'''<br /> *:Martinson quotes another's experience: &quot;My first homosexual experience came at the age of five or six, when I would play with this boy who was at that time about sixteen. He would ask me if I wanted to go into his house for something to eat, like some cookies or something. Of course I would go. Next he would ask me if I would go into the bedroom with him. Upon entering the bedroom, he would undress and ask me to do the same. I would, probably out of fright. I distinctly remember his body being very hairy, so perhaps I underestimated his age. Anyway, after undressing, he would tell me to bend over and then he would insert his erect penis into my anal region and start thrusting back and forth. He would then stimulate my penis and want me to do the same to him. We also masturbated each other, with him reaching orgasm and myself only being stimulated. I also spent some time in oral-genital contact. I did find the whole experience quite pleasing and continued to engage in these activities for a week or two. Then, and I don't recall why, we suddenly stopped doing it completely.&quot; <br /> *'''[http://home.wanadoo.nl/ipce/library_two/rind/rind_gay_boys_app.htm Bruce Rind, quoting accounts from Savin-Williams (1997).]'''<br /> *:[B: 13, M: 22] &quot;Subject and adult brother often massaged each other. &quot;This time, however, I got a little hard and then he noted I had grown so much since he last saw me naked. He asked me jokingly if he could suck my dick. I said 'yes' so we got off on each other. He did me and then I did him. He came all over me but I did not. This lasted a month until he headed back to work. I do miss him as a friend and a brother. Was nothing romantic.&quot; Subject added, &quot;I liked it, ... felt good. I wanted to do it again and again. I already knew my brother was gay and that I was attracted to men so this did not prove or disprove that I was gay.&quot;<br /> *:[B: 15, M: 27] &quot;[It was with] the mailman, honest to God! On and off for two years. The first time was when I came to the door to get a special delivery package in my sheer designer underwear, from American Male. I was changing to go back to school. He sprouted a boner, I got hard, he grabbed mine, I grabbed his, and we were off and running. Every day I'd come home for lunch; my mother worked. I had to be quick so he'd not get docked for late deliveries. He had a real thing for redheads like me. He was very forward, connected with me, and told me how hot I was. Talked about our backgrounds. It ended when he suddenly got transferred and contact became difficult. We visited each other and had sex, but it was hard and we agreed mutually because of the distance that it was better that we be friends and not lovers&quot; (p. 172).<br /> *:[B: 12, M: 22] It lasted 9 months with his science teacher. &quot;It developed over time and was great. We became friends and I invited him over once when my parents weren't home. I practically had to force sex on him because he was afraid about losing his job. Ended when I went away for the summer and he wasn't a teacher at my school no more&quot; (p. 163). &quot; <br /> *:[B: 12, M: 35] The man was a family friend; the sex was mutually initiated, oral, off and on for 10 years (a couple of times per month), and &quot;physically great.&quot; It confused the subject that the man was married, yet was willing to have sex with him. &quot;Eventually I fell in love with him; knew I was gay but did not broadcast this; I was curious because of the age difference. Mutual oral sex happened after he fondled me; it was the first orgasm I ever had.&quot; <br /> *:[B: 13, M: 38] &quot;Family friend. I initiated on a camping trip; we were in same tent at state park; oral sex to orgasm for both of us; several times during the night; incredibly erotic, tremendous release, very pleasurable. Not real close; didn't enjoy kissing. Afterwards scary because I enjoyed it so much. Not wanting to be near him on the trip because afraid others would notice. Once per month for the next 4 years that I initiated; never talked about it; sex was all it was. Wished I was straight so the attractions would go away, because the sexual gratification was so strong.&quot; <br /> *:[B: 14, M: 26] &quot;It was with a stranger; he initiated it; it involved oral and mutual masturbation, we did it 10 more times. I was excited, was loved and in love, got affection, but was not prepared for sex. It was not so l much that I wanted his affection; I was attracted to him. This relationship lasted a week then three months later we met again and we were sexual.&quot;<br /> <br /> *'''[[Bruce Rind]] - “The Problem with Consensus Morality”, ''Archives of Sexual Behavior,'' Vol. 31, No. 6, December 2002'''<br /> <br /> ::&quot;These are based on a sampling of interviews I recently conducted on individuals who learned about me from publicity surrounding my publications and contacted me to tell their stories. These cases, involving five men who had sex as boys around age 10 with men, dispute Schmidt’s claim that there can never be sexual consensus between prepubescents and adults. The cases are cross-national, coming from Australia, Canada, England, France, and the United States. The first three men are homosexual and the last two are heterosexual. All names have been altered to preserve confidentiality.<br /> <br /> :*Case 1. Nathan, a 45-year-old Brit, began being intensely curious about adult male genitalia when he was 8. At this age, in attempt to satisfy this curiosity, he surreptitiously went into the room of his household’s sleeping man servant and fondled him under his bed covers. By age 10, his curiosity had turned into sexual arousal. He unsuccessfully tried to solicit sex from men in locker rooms. At age 11, he met a neighbor man, whom he worked on over many visits in attempt to initiate sex. Eventually, he succeeded. In his many repeats with the man over the next 2 years, Nathan reported that he was the “conductor” - he controlled the sexual interactions. While still a boy, he had several other sexual relations with men, all of which he viewed as very positive. He thinks the sex helped his sexual self-confidence: as he matured, he knew exactly what he wanted in sex, while his peers were still searching.<br /> <br /> :*Case 2. James, a 23-year-old Canadian, first felt sexually aroused by other males at age 6 and had his first sex at 8 with a peer. At 11, he befriended a neighbor man, towhom he gave many signals, hoping for sex to occur. Eventually, it did, which made him feel proud and closer to the man. Over the next 3 years, he visited the man regularly, often secretly to avoid the possibility of his parents ending the relationship. He saw the relationship as very positive and said it built his personality (e.g., greater self-confidence) and influenced many of his tastes (e.g., an appreciation for literature).<br /> <br /> :*Case 3. Daniel, a 33-year-old Frenchman, was physically affectionate with his father starting at age 6. By 8, he became sexually attracted to him. At 10, he initiated sexual fondling with him, which the father accepted. In the sexual relationship, which lasted 4 years, Daniel always initiated the sex. In retrospect, he cherished the intimacy and described the relationship as &quot;beautiful, pure, security, confidence, and love.&quot; He said it built his sexual self-confidence.<br /> <br /> :*Case 4. At age 8, Dennis, a 21-year-old American, initiated sexual contact with a man friendly with his family, whom he suspected of being involved with his older brother. Sex occurred between them for the next 2 years. He said he usually initiated the encounters because he was always ready for sex. He described the relationship as the most positive he has ever had. He saw himself as having the upper hand, because he felt he had control over the man, who went to great lengths to fulfill his wishes. He felt that his adolescent and adult sexual relations went more smoothly because of the competence he got from these early experiences. Asked how a heterosexual male could have enjoyed homosexual relations, he answered that he was attracted to sex back then, not females or males per se.<br /> <br /> :*Case 5. John, a 22-year-old Australian, first realized his sexual arousal to girls at age 8. By 9, he felt lonely and was bullied by older boys, when he met a male neighbor in his late teens. They quickly became friends, and John spent a lot of time at his house. The young man eventually initiated masturbatory sex with him. John was at first apprehensive that others would find out, but became comfortable with the sex once he felt safe from this concern. The relationship lasted 3 years. He was proud to be seen with the older male, saw him as his protector, and saw the intimacy they had as the highlight of his life. Asked if the relationship was consenting, he said yes, because he wanted it, the young man wanted it, he loved the young man, so consent meant, &quot;Yes, do it.&quot;&quot;<br /> <br /> *'''[http://www.ipce.info/ipceweb/Library/01oct01c_my_father.htm My Father and I]'''<br /> *:Positive man-boy incest is interrupted by a mother. &quot;My father molested me from the time I was two till I was 15. We would lie naked and he would play with my penis. Then he would give me oral sex. When I was old enough I then started sucking him too. He never hurt me or tried to have anal sex with me, even though I wanted him to. I had anal sex with him, a few times, once my father decided my penis was big enough. My father and I would plan things around the times where we could meet and make each other feel good. My mother found out and two months ago my father was sent to prison. What my father did to me was not rape, at all. He never hurt me. In fact, I looked forward to spending the time with him but my mother and the police don't seem to listen.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.ipce.info/ipceweb/Library/00dec18c_a_professor_speaks.htm William Percy]'''<br /> *:Article &quot;UMASS professor advocates pederasty.&quot; William Armstrong Percy III says that when he was 14, he seduced a male soldier while traveling on a train. &quot;I never got enough sex with an older man. I don't see that I was harmed at all, except being deprived of not having more,&quot; said Percy. &quot;I was already the aggressor.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.ipce.info/library_3/files/tindall.htm The male adolescent involved with a pederast becomes an adult]'''<br /> *:Several accounts. &quot;During his 11th year he began spending his spare time around a service station, where he became acquainted with a master mechanic who was then in his early 40s, married, and childless. [...] On a fishing trip, during a break on an island, they began talking about sex, which led to Denver's being fellated by the mechanic and to masturbation of the mechanic by Denver. For the next 5 years mutual fellatio occurred two or three times per week. Sexual activity with the mechanic ceased at about age 19, but a close relationship continued to exist until the mechanic's death. Denver is now 44 years of age. [...] Denver remarried and has been a valued mechanic with the same company for 20 years. He has a supervisory position and believes that his relationship with his mechanic friend helped him reach his goals. He says he would have approved a similar relationship for either of his sons, had he become aware of such a situation. He reports no desire to have sex with males since approximately age 20.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/10/19/national/main2104978.shtml Mark Foley]'''<br /> *:Former American Republican, @13y/o. &quot;The Rev. Anthony Mercieca, 72, described several encounters that he said Foley might perceive as sexually inappropriate, the Sarasota Herald-Tribune reported. They include massaging Foley while the boy was naked, skinny-dipping together at a secluded lake in Lake Worth and being nude in the same room on overnight trips. &quot;Once maybe I touched him or so ... but I didn't, it's not something you call rape or penetration or anything like that,&quot; Mercieca told West Palm Beach station WPTV in a phone interview. &quot;He seemed to like it, you know? So it was sort of more like a spontaneous thing&quot;. Mercieca said.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://richarddawkins.net/article,118,Religionrsquos-Real-Child-Abuse,Richard-Dawkins Richard Dawkins]'''<br /> *:From an article of his, that despite not being exactly sex - positive, goes as far as is 'acceptable' in playing down the impact of nonviolent, situational fondling of children by priests, whilst attacking the religious dogmas that sometimes cause so much shame after such encounters. &quot;Being fondled by the Latin master in the Squash Court was a disagreeable sensation for a nine-year-old, a mixture of embarrassment and skin-crawling revulsion, but it was certainly not in the same league as being led to believe that I, or someone I knew, might go to everlasting fire. As soon as I could wriggle off his knee, I ran to tell my friends and we had a good laugh, our fellowship enhanced by the shared experience of the same sad pedophile. I do not believe that I, or they, suffered lasting, or even temporary damage from this disagreeable physical abuse of power. Given the Latin Master’s eventual suicide, maybe the damage was all on his side.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.ipce.info/ipceweb/Statements/factoids.htm Heinz Kohut]'''<br /> *:Strozier, quoting the Psychologist on his relationship as a child: &quot;I had this private tutor, who was a very important person in my life. He would take me to museums and swimming and concerts and we had endless intellectual conversations and played complicated intellectual games and played chess together&quot; They also did sexual things together, which they both enjoyed, but Kohut felt the sex was more or less incidental. The important thing for him was the relationship. He said &quot;I was an only child. So it was in some way psychologically life-saving for me. I was very fond of this fellow.&quot; Heinz was about 10 or 11 at the time. He describes his years with his tutor as being perhaps the happiest ones in his life.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://news.scotsman.com/farrightineurope/Fortuyn-favoured-depraved.2326187.jp Pim Fortuyn]'''<br /> *:Populist, anti - immigration, homosexual Politician from the Netherlands (deceased): &quot;Fortuyn's first experience occurred when he was five years old. &quot;The Dutch soldier asks if I want to see his tent. That's what I want. I like it and they all are sleeping on the ground in a sleeping-bag. I ask if it is hard and cold to sleep on the ground. Oh no, come here. Together we crawl in his sleeping-bag. The soldier asks my name and I ask his name. “He is called Arie and he asks if I like that name. Yes, I think that's a nice name and I lie beside him, nice and warm.&quot; Fortuyn then described a close sexual encounter with the soldier before leaving his sleeping-bag &quot;to go and play outside.&quot; He added: &quot;Can I come back tomorrow? Yes, tomorrow I may come back, says Arie.&quot; A few pages later, he describes another incident: &quot;I went to the park for a walk, it was very silent and the sun was shining. On the bench sat a young fellow. I stood still, curious.&quot; Fortuyn relates another sexual encounter - this time in explicit detail. He concludes: &quot;I was frightened and ran away to my home, to my mother. Excited, I ran into the room. My mother looked at me searchingly and asked what had happened. Nothing, of course. Watch out, little man, was the only thing she said. A glass of lemonade made me calm down. Yes, that was exciting.&quot; Most telling is his appraisal of these memories. &quot;In chapter 1 about the 1950s, I wrote about my early sexual experiences, experiences that I see as an enrichment. Today, an experience like that in the park could easily lead to a complaint by parents to the police because of paedophilia, and the relevant young man would be in trouble. But why? &quot;He didn't do me any harm. On the contrary, he showed me something that was incomprehensibly exciting and I could feel and touch it, but today we are ready to interfere with complete teams of professionals. By interfering in such an irritating and grown-up way in the world of children, we make an enormous problem of something that for a child is no problem at all and is only exciting.&quot;&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.mwillett.org/Debate/viewtopic.php?p=121929#121929 Todd Nickerson]'''<br /> *:A self-declared pedophile writes: &quot;I did have a single sexual encounter with an adult when I was a child, though I would hardly describe it as traumatic or even unpleasant. My memory of being touched—and that’s all it amounted to—is that it was, at most, a little confusing since I didn’t really understand what was taking place. Not that I really minded, though. In fact, after it occurred, I went immediately to a relative and bragged to her about it.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.boylover.net/ Boylover.net member on experiences as an 11-year-old boy]'''<br /> *:&quot;We piled back into the limo and it drove us to Toronto where we went to a stage play. I don’t remember what we saw because my head was still spinning about the fact that this attractive man, one who could have any female he wanted, was in love with me and was doing all this to make this night as special as he could. After the play, we headed for home. Limo drivers must have orders to ignore whatever they see going on in the back because ours got quite an eyeful. He was treated to the sight of an eleven-year-old boy and a nineteen-year-old man acting like boyfriends. We kissed, we petted, and we worked each other into an erotic frenzy, a frenzy for which there could only be one consummation.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.boylover.net/ Boylover.net member on intercourse]'''<br /> *:&quot;I was 10 and it was with an Adult Friend. I did not, nor do I now think I was abused. (well not by my AF anyway) I liked it. We only ever did the things I wanted to do.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.helping-people.info/Treatment/sot/offender.htm#3-6a_narrative_force Frans Gieles in an article of his]'''<br /> *:&quot;Craisatie (1998, among others page 117) describes a client who, as a child, had frequented a group, which in the book was called 'a child pornography ring'. As a child, he never had seen this as being abuse. Contrarily, he said that he'd gotten a lot of love, comradeship and care, which he did not get at home. Craisatie describes it as an example of successful treatment that his client ultimately abandoned his feeling of being loved and changed it into the feeling of being abused although this occurred only gradually and very late in the treatment process [...] Ehrenreich (2004) describes a man who for nineteen years was held in a closed clinic. He denied his offense, thus refused to speak about it, thus he did not cooperate, thus year after year his stay was renewed. Then, he changed tack: he 'acknowledged' his offense, he spoke about it, he did exactly what the therapists ordered, and said that he benefited from their treatment. This was the only way to be released. The man has been released. Then it turned out that his accusers had lied about everything they had said, under high pressure of the police: there never had been an offense.&quot;<br /> *'''Boy in Dan Tsang (1981)''', &quot;The age taboo&quot;. London: Gay Men's Press. <br /> *:&quot;It's often not the man who goes out to seduce the boy, but the other way round. In my first experience, I did the seducing. . . . It is mostly the boys who go out in search of sexual satisfaction from men...&quot;<br /> *'''[http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=bta8oOuDtoI (Man?) on YouTube]'''<br /> *:An extremely detailed account that was hindered by a voice concealer. Person had a positive relationship as youngster, and has met pedophiles.<br /> *'''[http://www.sunstar.com.ph/static/net/2007/10/19/orphans.admit.clown.fondled.them.html Carlock the Clown]'''<br /> *:Some young children pleaded with authorities not to press charges against a clown who played with them sexually. &quot;Surprisingly though, when asked by American embassy officials if they wanted their &quot;Kuya Paul&quot; charged in court for abusing them, all the three kids pleaded with the officials not to file a case against Carlock. &quot;Please don't file a case against Kuya Paul. He is a good man, he is a good man,&quot; the kids said. &quot;The kids told me that they loved the man so much because he was so good to them. They said they treated the man as their father. Paul gave them candies, lollipops,&quot; Karasuyama said.&quot; The clown was eventually [http://illinoishomepage.net/content/fulltext/?cid=9747 tasered and killed by police].<br /> *'''[http://terrygeorge.co.uk/home/?topic=440 Terry George on &quot;phone sex&quot; with Michael Jackson]'''<br /> *:According to George, Michael Jackson engaged him in &quot;phone sex&quot; at the age of 13: &quot;I do not feel like a victim and I never did feel like a victim,&quot; he said. See [http://terrygeorge.co.uk/home/?folder=13 directory] for other articles.<br /> *'''[http://www.freetimes.com/stories/13/43/confessions-of-a-proud-pedophile-phillip-distasio-says-getting-caught-was-all-part-of-his-plan Phillip Distasio]'''<br /> *:Imprisoned for life; a proud pedophile activist who had a relationship with an older man at 12. &quot;Distasio describes himself as a second-generation pedophile: at the age of 12, he began a relationship with an older man, a swimming instructor named Charlie, at a boys' club in Massachusetts. He says he's known about his proclivity since age 9. &quot;To me,&quot; he says, “it is as valid as any other sexual orientation.&quot;&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.broadbandreports.com/shownews/Cleaning-Up-Tor-82218 &quot;Jay78&quot; commenting on broadbandreports.com]'''<br /> *:&quot;Also, when I was about 6 years of age I was sexually &quot;used&quot; without coercion by an adult family member in ways that today would have put that person in prison. I almost forgot about that seemingly anecdotal incident and memory until I was reminded of it by the current hysteria over that kind of thing. Compared with the other things I experienced, that was not even worth thinking of, I would never hurt that person who did that and have a good relationship with that person today.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.ipce.info/library_3/files/rivas_howard_miller.htm &quot;Howard Miller&quot; as told to Titus Rivas, Ipce]'''<br /> *:&quot;We would zip our sleeping bags together and he would tickle and massage me all over. He would tell me dirty jokes while helping me with my homework and get me aroused. Then we would masturbate together. He satisfied me and then himself or we satisfied ourselves while watching each other. I thought that he was fascinating to look at and occasionally touch but not to satisfy. [...] I have only good feelings about what happened but am sad that most people will never be able to understand that. I also wish that we didn't have to worry about each other getting into trouble with the society over what happened. [...] Because I had such a positive experience as a child I believe that I can say with absolute certainty that sometimes such relationships can be very positive. Notice I don't say that they always will be, but heck more than 50% of marriages end in divorce. Most real child abuse occurs in families. Should then marriage be outlawed?&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.boylover.net/info/scrapbook/kolya_03.html Loren Robb and Kolya - Bulletin]'''<br /> *:A man tells of his loving relationship with a young native Arctic boy who he brought up in New Zealand.<br /> *'''[http://youfoundme.org/mylife.html My Life - Youfoundme.org]'''<br /> *:A very long testimony written by a person known to a contact of Newgon.com. &quot;It was the end of that summer that I learned what real heartache felt like. Sex was never the dominating factor in my relationship with James. I wanted to fool around a lot more than he did but I just liked being with him. He knew so much about construction and getting things to work that it was like being at school all the time except it was fun. Like any kid who hears his dad tell the same joke all the time I got tired of hearing &quot;plumbings easy boy, just remember shit flows down hill&quot;. What I really didn't want to hear was the day James told me we couldn't do the sex thing anymore. I don't recall his exact words but something to the effect &quot;this just isn't right or this isn't normal&quot;. I was crushed. It (our friendship) seemed so normal and great to me that I didn't understand why he felt that way. My suffering didn't come from the hands of an abuser, my suffer came from the words of a man who feared for my wellbeing. I kept telling him I was okay with things and nothing needed to change. Change did come and even my begging wouldn't get him to monkey around with me. It happened once or twice after the big talk but it was never the same.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2372/is_4_41/ai_n9488757/pg_1 Jessica L. Stanley (Researcher)]'''<br /> *:&quot;One man, at 14 years old, researched the location of gay bars and met a man with whom he had a few sexual encounters and with whom he has maintained a friendship for nearly 20 years.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2372/is_3_39/ai_94130312 Curtis Dolezal (Researcher)]'''<br /> *:&quot;participant was 10 when he had sexual contact on 20 occasions over 3 months with a 25-year-old male neighbor. The events involved mutual masturbation and oral sex. The participant did not feel coerced or hurt and did not feel it was sexual abuse &quot;because I seduced the neighbor.&quot;<br /> *'''[[Paedophilia: The radical case|O'Carroll 1980, p.83-84]]'''<br /> *:&quot;As a boy he became sexually mature at age twelve-and-a-half. &quot;It was like the world was beginning to make sense, to take on purpose and meaning. [...] I regard my meeting with Mr. S., then aged twenty-six, as a critical turning point in my love life. Until then, sex was fun, felt good and left me only moderately guilty. Once I approached Mr.S. (Yes, I approached him) with my thirteen-year-old impatience for intimacy, he told no one, responded positively to my shaky advances (didn't even laught at me!) and simply embraced me. [...] Here was a masculine adult man (happily married even), who was interested in doing with me what I was already finding exciting with my boy-friends. And through this relationship a new dimension was added to my experience which has not occurred to me before - tenderness, affection and love. (...) This affection was, in its way, just as satisfying as the ecstatic orgasms that punctuated our days and nights together. I regard this man, this relationship as a turning point because I was never the same after knowing him for two years - I was more in tune with myself after that...&quot;.<br /> *'''[[Sex met kinderen]], pages 75-76. (Untranslated - [[Frits Bernard]])'''<br /> *:A 25 year old man tells of a relationship struck up with a gay man when he was eight. They started having sex when he was ten, something that he enjoyed. The relationship lasts until he is 18.<br /> *'''&quot;En me vriendje houdt van mij: 23 verhalen uit het leven gegrepen&quot;, edited by Ben Füss and Gorrit Goslinga (Eindhoven: Stichting Uitgeverij NVSH, 1981)'''<br /> *:&quot;We had just moved and that was how I met a nice man, as a 13-year-old. We talked a lot, in his room. He was very interested in art and possessed a lot of books with pictures of works of art and sculpture. I had little interest for this but did not want to hurt Dick's feelings. Only the pictures that showed nudity captured my interest. I also tried to hide this. [...]&quot; This interest was noticed by Dick and it led to Dick briefly caressing the boy's genitals. Dick was very cautious and tried to end it immediately. The boy was very eager to have additional sexual experiences and finally persuaded Dick to allow him a visit. One thing led to another and the end result was a tender sexual relationship that lasted for about six years. After the war he re-established a life-long friendship with Dick, though without the sexual aspect. He was there when Dick died at age 83. He adds: &quot;The value of this relationship is something I continue to cherish till this very day.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/15/science/15gajdusek.html &quot;D. Carleton Gajdusek, Who Won Nobel for Work on Brain Disease, Is Dead at 85&quot;]'''<br /> *:&quot;D. Carleton Gajdusek, a virologist who won the 1976 Nobel Prize in medicine for his work on the mysterious epidemics now known as prion diseases, died last week in Tromso, Norway. [...] In later life, Dr. Gajdusek became notorious when he was charged with molesting the many young boys he had adopted in New Guinea and Micronesia and brought to live with him in Maryland. He pleaded guilty to one charge, served a year in prison and left the United States in 1998, dividing his time between Paris, Amsterdam and Tromso. [...] He also remained unrepentant about the sexual relationships with his adopted sons, Dr. Klitzman said. He considered American law prudish and pointed out that sex with young men was normal in the cultures he studied and in the classic Greek societies at the foundation of Western civilization. His legal assistant, Dorrie Runman, who was previously married to one of his sons, John Runman, said Dr. Gajdusek’s survivors included “his adopted sons and daughters, including Yavine Borimaand Jesse Mororui-Gajdusek in the United States, and two nephews, Karl Lawrence Gajdusek and Mark Terry.” His children were legally adopted, Ms. Runman said. He put several through college and graduate or medical school. Some of them, now in their 50s, supported him during his legal troubles, while one sibling testified against him.&quot;<br /> <br /> *'''[http://www.jungsforum.net/politik/messages/159581.htm Anon, in Berliner Zeitung (Translation)]'''<br /> *:&quot;Being 52 now, I got a relationship with a man at the age of 8-9 of whom I was told later that he was a paedophile. The relationship went on until I was about 14 years old and we were lucky that it remained undiscovered and free of police enquiries. Even today, so many years later, I remember my big friend with gratitude, as he made my coming out as a gay person later on – and many other things in my life - a lot easier for me. Since then, I have met numerous people who also had [consensual] sexual relationships with adults as children and teenagers and who are not ashamed of this. It is easy to understand why such people never get in touch with abuse counseling agencies, because they really don't need such help. That's how such centres get a completely one-sided view of so-called victims of abuse.&quot;.<br /> <br /> *'''''Paedophilia - What It Means To The Child'' by [[Frits Bernard]], printed in [http://exitinterview.biz/rarities/panfull.htm PAN 3] (pp. 15 - 17)'''<br /> **&quot;I was about 13 when I had my first paedophile experience. [...] The man who brought me into touch with homosexuality and whom I even loved physically was, and still is, one of my dearest friends. I remember what a wonderful feeling it was when he satisfied me for the first time. I was not troubled in the least by worries over having done 'perverted things', probably because I had no idea of what such things were. [...] The only trouble I have had over this was when I first told my fiancée about it.&quot;<br /> **&quot;When I was seven I had contact with a man who was especially nice to me. He used to take me to his attic, sit me on his lap and play with me sexually. I thought it was very nice and enjoyed it. I always looked forward to Wednesday afternoons, the days when we saw each other. This went on for a long time. Later I had many contacts with other men, but never with boys my own age. One day I went with a waiter to his house. I was very interested and excited. We had unusually satisfying sex together. I must have been about 14. Back home I was restless and went to see him the very next day on my own initiative. We had intercourse about twenty times in the following period. [...] Now, after a good life, I can see these early contacts as very positive to my development. I would not like to have missed them and I do not envy the people who never had these opportunities.&quot;<br /> **&quot;When I was about eight years old I got to know a man in the street who thought I played very nicely. He invited me out for a bicycle ride, and later to visit his home. [...] From him I received love, which actually I had never known (not, I mean, in the way I know it at present from my wife). [...] Later, when I was ten or eleven, we had sex with each other, something I always enjoyed.&quot;<br /> **Several further accounts involving slightly older minors are available in the article.<br /> <br /> *'''Zimmerman, Ann (1994). &quot;[http://www.dallasobserver.com/1994-11-17/news/tell-mama-why-you-cry-part-i/5 'Tell Mama Why You Cry' (Part I)],&quot; ''Dallas Observer'', November 17.'''<br /> *:&quot;The tape of Tim's interview could not be located, but according to Black's notes, Tim had seen his father touch his sister on her private parts on several occasions. &quot;He stated his father tickles Lima on her private parts and she likes it. When questioned further, Tim revealed his father also touches him on his private parts...at his house...Tim stated he doesn't mind his father doing this.&quot;<br /> <br /> *'''[[Terry Leahy]]: Positively Experienced Man/Boy Sex : The Discourse of Seduction and the Social Construction of Masculinity, ''Australian and New Zealand Journal of Sociology'' 28,1 (1992) pp. 71-88.'''<br /> *:A study of eight people who perceived their childhood (under 16) contacts with adults positively.<br /> *:&quot;Derek describes his first sexual encounter with a man in the following way. He is at the park at six o’clock on the swing. A man rushes towards him and begins to strip off:<br /> *::I just sat there looking. I didn’t know what to do but sort of thrilling. I looked, gawked, sort of ... I didn’t mind, I just kept on swinging on the swing. And I wasn’t scared or anything and he just come up to me and said ’Oh, how are ya?’ and I said ’Oh, not too bad’. In other words, coming on to me. And he turned around and said, ’Oh, what’s your name?’ And I’d tell him my name ’cause I wasn’t scared or anything because it was in a park and it was about six o’clock, really early, six, you know what I mean. And he just said, ’Would you like a drink?’ and I said ’No’. Then I started getting a bit nervy, nervous sort of thing. I knew, I must ... I knew in a way that he’d do something. So I just sat there, you know, and he said, ’Oh, would you like to come for a drive?’ Well I rushed him! So I just went for a drive with him and there we got off. First time, we got off ... I wanted to try it out. So I tried it. It was a really good feeling. Ever since then I kept on going.<br /> *:Here the narrative of this event begins with Derek sitting innocently on the swing. A man appears with obvious sexual intentions. Derek is instantly thrilled and takes voyeuristic pleasure in seeing him undress. He is not scared to go with the man and in fact ’rushes’ him. The sex is great and he has an orgasm. Even anal sex, though a bit uncomfortable at first, is enjoyed. All this has happened because he wanted to try it out and having done so he is eager to repeat the experience. This is typical of the discourse of male adolescent sexuality - spontaneous, adventurous, sexual pleasure is guaranteed, and casual contact is exciting. Derek presents himself as an active and initiating party. The events that take place are in reponse to his emerging self constituted sexual desire. All this works against any interpretation of Derek as a victim of homosexual seduction. Summarising his attitude to these sexual encounters on another occasion he concludes:<br /> *::I mean to say, sex is sex, you gotta, you know, well ... The way I feel, what would you do without it? It’s just something normal. Sex is just normal for everybody. Not just for me, for everybody and to do without ... I reckon it would be pretty hard to do without it so you’re just going to have to think.<br /> *:[...]<br /> *:Christopher’s interview provides a thorough discussion of these issues. At the time when he was interviewed he was in his mid thirties. His relationship with an adult gay man, George, began when he was about nine years old and lasted till he was eighteen. In a wry comment on the discourse of seduction he offered this remark:<br /> *::So I suppose then, you want to know now if I’m fucked up now sexually because of this terrible trauma of my childhood? Well - no. Umm. My main thrust - pun! - is heterosexual but ahh, I still occasionally sleep with males but when I say occasionally I mean very occasionally.<br /> *:[...]<br /> *:In particular, in discussing the various sexual activities in which he was engaged, Christopher stresses the physical pleasures of various acts and argues that his initial reservations about particular practices (oral sex, anal sex) were broken down as he received physical pleasure from these activities and came to feel that it was only fair to reciprocate.&quot;<br /> <br /> *'''[[Frits Bernard|Bernard, F.]] (1979). &quot;[http://exitinterview.biz/rarities/pan/htmfiles/pan3p13.htm Paedophilia: What it means to the child]&quot; ''[[PAN]]'', November 1979.'''<br /> <br /> :*A heterosexual male recalls at age 24: &quot;I had my first sexual contact with an older man in Rotterdam... It was nothing more than each of us quickly masturbating each other, looking shyly around us. Once this corner was turned a lot of other experiences followed. I can't say much about them, just sex and nothing more. One of the reasons nothing lasted was that the men were dead scared of being trapped. The iniative always came from me. I used to wear my shortest and cutest shorts and stroll across the market squares and through the busiest streets of Rotterdam until I saw someone I thought was 'like that' and then I allowed myself to be 'seduced'. That went on until I was 17. [...] I have no regrets about this period. I am only sorry that I never had what I was really looking for: an older friend with whom I could enjoy not only sex but all kinds of things, someone who could teach me about everything.&quot;<br /> <br /> :*An engaged, heterosexual male recalls at age 23: &quot;I was about 13 when I had my first paedophile experience (...) The man who brought me into touch with homosexuality and whom I even loved physically was, and still is, one of my dearest friends. I remember what a wonderful feeling it was when he satisfied me for the first time.&quot; Despite this, the man makes it clear that he does not approve of pedophilic contact, as it happens today.<br /> <br /> :*A heterosexual adult recalls at age 37: &quot;I must have been 14 [or] 15 at the time of my first sexual encounter with a man of about 30. I enjoyed these experiences. (...) I am now married and have four children. People with this inclination should fit into society and our society should accept this as natural. But it will be a very long time before this happens. (...) My earlier contacts of this kind were so upsetting to my parents that, at the time, I always had the feeling that I was dong something wrong. Now I see it as part of a personal experience which I would not like to see removed from my life.&quot;<br /> <br /> :*A gay man recalls at 67, the following contact with a 35-year-old man: &quot;When I was 7, I had contact with a man who was especially nice to me. He used to take me to his attic, had me sit on his lap and we had sexual contact with each other. I really found it pleasant and enjoyed it. I was always looking forward to Wednesday afternoons, the days we saw each other. This went on for a long period of time. [...] Now, as a nearly 68-year-old man, who has had a good life, I regard these contacts I used to have as very positive for my development. I would not have wanted to miss them, and I do not envy people who have never not had these opportunities. [...] Later I had many contacts with other men, but never with boys my own age. One day I went with a waiter to his house. I was very interested and excited. We had unusually satisfying sex together. I must have been about 14. Back home I was restless and went to see him the very next day on my own initiative. We had intercourse about twenty times in the following period.&quot;<br /> <br /> :*A straight man recalls at 25, the following relationship: &quot;When I was about eight years old I got to know a man in the street who thought I played very nicely. He invited me out for a bicycle ride, and later to visit his home (...) Gradually, we got to know each other... and I came to realise that he was homosexual. This did not shock me; I just wanted to know more about it. (...) From him I received love, which actually I had never known (...) Later, when I was ten or eleven, we had sex with each other, some-thing I always enjoyed. That lasted until I was eighteen, when I started going steady with a girl. When I became engaged I was able to tell my future wife with an easy mind about my youthful experiences. She could appreciate the whole thing very well. [We have] an especially good marriage, an especially fine sexual relationship, and an especially dear little daughter.&quot;<br /> <br /> *'''Wolf Vogel (author) ''[http://www.ipce.info/host/rivas/boys_men/bjorn.htm Heimliche Liebe: Eros zwischen Knabe und Mann]'', 1997. Translator writes of the following translation: &quot;includes the remarkable case of Björn and Jan, located in a major town in the North of Germany.&quot;'''<br /> <br /> :*&quot;When Björn (32) was a young boy, he met his adult friend Jan (45) and they still had a sexual relationship at the time of the interview. As a 10-year-old boy, Björn felt attracted to social worker Jan because of the latter's revolutionary ideas and Björn tried to provoke him with a lot of questions and remarks about sexuality. One day, when Björn was eleven and a half, they happened to meet near the town's riverbank. Björn tried to get Jan sexually interested in him and when they met at Jan's place he finally succeeded. Björn really wanted Jan to penetrate him, but Jan declined the offer and it took Björn a year to convince him that he was not afraid of getting physically hurt in the process. The boy really enjoyed this type of penetrative sexual contact and now that he's an adult, he's still doing it quite often with Jan. He remarks that if one wishes to speak of seduction in this relationship, it was him who was the seducing party. Their relationship has always stayed a secret for the people in their environment. Jan used to help Björn with the problems he was having with his parents, and also with his educational and professional progress.&quot;<br /> <br /> *'''Seth Mydans (author) ''[http://www.nytimes.com/1989/02/05/world/in-a-philippine-town-child-prostitution-despite-protests-is-a-way-of-life.html In a Philippine Town, Child Prostitution, Despite Protests, Is a Way of Life]'', 1989.'''<br /> <br /> :*&quot;Drive into this green and quiet town [Pangsanjan, Philippines] 40 miles southeast of Manila and groups of men will run alongside your car, banging on the windows, offering a choice of the local attractions: A boat ride to the scenic waterfall or a child prostitute. (...) When Mrs. Zaide's group, the Council of Citizens for the Protection of Children, pasted up posters warning against prostitution, the citizens of Pagsanjan tore them down. Stones were thrown at the houses of council members. When the Immigration Commission a year ago arrested 22 foreigners who were engaged in prostitution rings, some parents, the recipients of their largesse, testified in their defense. (...) Estafania Aldaba-Lim, a former minister of social welfare who has studied the Pagsanjan situation, said local residents discovered the easy money in male prostitution when American filmmakers came to town to shoot scenes for &quot;Apocalypse Now.&quot; &quot;I suppose some gays with the crew fell in love with the young macho boatmen,'&quot; she said, &quot;and then it went to much younger boys, down to 9, 10, 11 years old, and the whole town got in on it.&quot; (...) But, Miss Zaide said child prostitution continues. One Swiss national, she said, married the sister of his 15-year-old male lover and has applied to return home not with his wife but with his new brother-in-law. &quot;The family is proud of it,&quot; Miss Zaide said. It flaunts his gifts, which include one of the better residences in town. '''At school, according to another member of Miss Zaide's group, children proudly display the new clothes, pocket money and other gifts that they receive from their patrons, tempting other children to follow their example.''' [emphasis ours] One Third of Boys Are Involved. Miss Zaide estimated that one-third of the youngsters have taken part in the sex trade in this town of 22,000, where 65 percent of the population is below the age of 18. When teachers confront the parents of these children, she said, the parents ask them, &quot;What can you give us in exchange? Can you pay for my child's schooling? Can you give him an allowance? Can you build a home for us?&quot;&quot;<br /> <br /> *'''&quot;Neil&quot; in Birkett, D. ''[http://www.deabirkett.com/pages/journalism_film/film/monsters_with_human_faces.htm The Devil Amongst Us - accompanying article]'', 1997.'''<br /> <br /> :*&quot;During my research I met Neil, a gay man now aged 40, who enjoyed having sex with adult men from the age of nine. &quot;It seems to be politically correct, even within the gay movement, to be anti-paedophile. But when I ask gay male friends when they first had sex they say, 'Oh, ten, 11, 12, with a bloke down the road who was 22.' He was probably a paedophile!&quot;&quot;<br /> <br /> *'''&quot;Dan&quot; in Newberger, Eli H.<br /> , ''Bringing Up a Boy''(Perseus Books, 1999)<br /> * &quot;In ninth grade, Dan began sexual activity with men, some in their twenties, others in their thirties or older. He meets many of them in gay clubs. He also feels confident initiating contact with strangers in public, in stores, for example.&quot; <br /> <br /> [[Category:Official Encyclopedia]][[Category:Testimony]][[Category:Testimony: Contact]]<br /> <br /> [[fr:Témoignages: Adulte mâle avec mineur mâle]]</div>

StephenJames http://newgon77idcem62vqlfge3jkidjenvf6afhxwr2napk4kpp2labjbdid.onion/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:Testimony:_Adult_Male_with_Minor_Male&diff=5864 2009-09-17T09:59:31Z

<p>StephenJames: </p> <hr /> <div>Tsang... according to Ken Plummer in Sandfort &quot;Male Intergenerational Intimacy&quot;. I have no more info. [[User:Daniel|Daniel]] 03:39, 1 May 2008 (UTC)<br /> <br /> From a contact:<br /> <br /> :On Saturday October 18th 1997 Dutch newspaper De Volkskrant published an article by Rob Gollin and Bas Mesters entitled &quot;In de hoek gedrukt&quot; (page 1). It includes a testimony by Roland, then 21 about his friend Patrick:<br /> <br /> :&quot;I liked him. At home things were not going as they should. One time we were together in the dressing room of the swimming pool, naked. It was quiet, we did not touch each other. Such a big penis, I loved it. If I had not wanted to, Patrick would not have pressed me. That is not the way he is. Around my 17th I became too big and hairy for him. I accepted it. Our contact was as great as before. I went looking for something on my own, no children, they don't appeal to me. I do not at all believe that I suffered any harm from this relationship. Quite the contrary, Patrick helped me.&quot; [[User:Rez|Rez (The Administrators - anonym)]] 23:57, 19 December 2008 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Any kind of order ? ==<br /> <br /> say by date, author, title? &amp;ndash; “it simplifies the life” [[User:Ahzee|Ahzee]] 19:14, 6 July 2009 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Date and age of youngest participants may be useful methods. I'm indifferent about using one, though. [[User:The Admins|The Admins]] 23:25, 6 July 2009 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Context needed==<br /> :Another member comments about their indifference, and expands later on. (Under IIDB about a third of the way down) <br /> Another member of what? The context needs explaining. (I tried to register with IIDB to find out, but was blocked.)[[User:StephenJames|StephenJames]] 09:59, 17 September 2009 (UTC)</div>

StephenJames http://newgon77idcem62vqlfge3jkidjenvf6afhxwr2napk4kpp2labjbdid.onion/wiki/index.php?title=Testimony:_Adult_Male_with_Minor_Male&diff=5863 2009-09-15T13:20:11Z

<p>StephenJames: </p> <hr /> <div>{{Template:A&amp;T}}<br /> *'''[http://dir.salon.com/story/mwt/feature/2002/07/22/coming_of_age/ Minor report] by David Tuller in Salon.com, July 22, 2002.'''<br /> **An aircraft maintenance worker describes his first experience at thirteen with a man of about 30 who had hired him to do yard work. After inviting him inside and showing him pictures of men wrestling, the man “started rubbing my crotch, and I was both nervous and really excited by it.” He went on to seek out other significantly older men. “I never felt used. I really wanted it, and except for the first time I always felt like the aggressor.” <br /> **Noted gay novelist Edmund White talks about picking up men at Chicago beaches and public restrooms from the age of 13 or 14. “I was very oversexed, absolutely driven wild by desire. ... The first one was a handsome architect, who actually had children older than me. I was absolutely fascinated by him, and I seduced him. I followed him to his car, walked right up to him and started talking to him. My mother was away and I said, ‘Come back to my apartment.’ And it was terrific.” <br /> ** In an essay about sex between adolescents and adults, David Tuller relates his own desire as a 15-year-old &quot;tormented homosexual wannabe.&quot; Upon seeing the movie Summer of '42, in which a young widow &quot;pulls Hermie into her arms and, in her grief, into her bed,&quot; he says, &quot;I cried while I watched, ... because I so yearned for the tender moments that Hermie found.&quot; <br /> **A gay health care professional in his 50s discusses how the relationship he pursued with a family friend in his early 20s helped him learn at the age of fifteen that men could care for each other. &quot;It was clear that it certainly felt good to both of us. ... In some way it was a real lifesaver, because it made me feel that love and affection and closeness and sex would be possible in my life. ... when we were together, it was like a little oasis where we could be ourselves.&quot; <br /> ** A businessman in Denver recounts his two-year relationship, from age fifteen, with his 29-year-old boss at the restaurant where he worked. &quot;It was frightening and invigorating and I felt clumsy and awkward. But he was playful and fun and very gentle. I never felt coerced. As foreign as it was to me I was very open to it. Afterwards, I felt good, like I'd experienced something I'd wanted to for a long time.&quot; Speaking of how it affected his life at the time, he says, &quot;I wasn't an awkward, out-of-place kid anymore. I felt appreciated for being gay, instead of being an outcast and made fun of. Suddenly I had this new self-confidence. I didn't have to hate myself for being gay.&quot; <br /> *'''[http://www.boychat.org/messages/932440.htm A long and varied career by Ambar] on BoyChat, July 2005.'''<br /> *:A man recounts his earliest sexual experiences, including with his best friend’s father at eight years old: “He became my second very, very, very best friend and so began a wonderful, loving relationship. I still adore that man :-)” <br /> *'''[http://newgon.com/CPP/HFP-072.htm Letter from John] in HFP Mailbag and [http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/13023005/ Sexual Abuse from a Victim] by John Tate, December 7, 2004.'''<br /> *:A 17-year-old reports on the anguish in his life stemming from sexual activity with his grandfather from age seven and attributes the worst aspects to society’s attitudes about it: “I think if this sort of thing was tolerated I would not have felt so fucking alienated, so hated, as a child, I would have not been an outcast.” <br /> *'''[http://www.boychat.org/messages/932397.htm count me IN !!! :))] by siao on BoyChat, July 2005. '''<br /> *:A man recounts his first experience of sex with an adult at seven years old: “suddenly fun was &quot;in&quot; … gosh, what was that twirling feeling which went all thru me ???” He also speaks of such encounters with many other men, saying, “NOT A SINGLE ONE EVER ABUSED ME ! I was free to say 'YES!!!!' and also knew how to say 'no' if there were ever anything I might not want.” <br /> *'''[http://www.bostonmagazine.com/articles/boy_crazy/ Boy Crazy] in Boston Magazine, May 2001'''<br /> **Famous poet Allen Ginsberg commented on the 1977 pedophilia scandal in Revere, Massachusetts, &quot;I had sex when I was 8 with a man in the back of my grandfather’s candy store in Revere, and I turned out okay.&quot; <br /> **Best-selling Canadian author James Dubro was 14 in 1961 when he started having sex with a 22-year-old college student who remains his friend 40 years later. <br /> *'''[http://newgon.com/CPP/BC-146796.htm My Story: A story of a boy] by Elf on BoyChat, October 1998.'''<br /> *:A man in his mid-20s tells his story. When he was nine or ten years old, he responded willingly to the seduction of a 16- or 17-year-old neighbor boy. They had a passionate love affair for over a year until they were discovered and his father beat him savagely. The older boy’s family disappeared from town. This man wrote of that affair as the best thing that ever happened to him and attributed his deep problems at the time of writing to the brutal way it was torn away from him. <br /> *'''&quot;[http://newgon.com/CPP/Spike/xaboutme.htm Spike]&quot; on his website'''<br /> *:A 15-year-old boy writes about his adult lover: “When I was 10, I found myself a mentor, a wonderful old man that needed me as much as I needed him. … J has been the best thing that could ever have happened to me. Everything I am today I owe to J. He and Mom are both educated people who believe that I must prepare myself for adulthood by learning how to learn, how to think for myself, and how to believe in myself … Mom sees the results of my association with J, and she could not be more pleased.” <br /> *'''[http://newgon.com/CPP/Hoby-mod.htm Hoby] on his website'''<br /> *:A boy proclaims his interest in adult men and says, “You should be able to love whoever you want when you want and as long as you both happy it dont matter what anyone else thinks.” <br /> *'''''[http://newgon.com/CPP/Arlekin/complain-mod.htm My Complaints]'' by David Alejandro, December 1996, on his website.'''<br /> *:A 13-year-old boy makes an impassioned plea for sexual freedom: “I want to love and be loved by whom I want. For the last two years I have an older friend. I am not gay, I like girls. He doesn’t, but we understand each other very well. It is nobody’s business what we do or don’t do. … Stop protecting me, please!” (Note: His site history page indicated that he was 13 when he posted this page and 15½ in June 1999. The English index pages said that he lived in the “Land of the Incas.”)<br /> *'''[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voor_een_verloren_soldaat Voor Een Verloren Soldaat] (For A Lost Soldier), autobiographical novel by Rudi van Dantzig, 1986 and 1992 movie made from it'''<br /> *:Acclaimed ballet dancer and choreographer Rudi van Dantzig tells the story of his brief romance at twelve with a Canadian soldier at the end of World War II. <br /> *'''[http://newgon.com/CPP/Stefan/index.htm Stefan] on his web page'''<br /> *:A 12-year-old in Holland says, “I will tell you about my BEST friend. He’s 28 and works at home. I love him the most in the world and he loves me. He says I’m the cutest boy in the world.” <br /> *'''[http://www.scottohara.com/obit.htm Scott O'Hara], quoted in his obituary at the Spirit of Stonewall Press Conference, New York City, June 24, 1994.'''<br /> *:The publisher of Steam magazine says, “When I was 12 and 13 years old I would have joined NAMBLA in a minute, because I knew I was gay and I wanted to go out and get laid, not just read The Gay Mystique all my life; I needed personal contact.” <br /> *'''Ik Wilde Meer! (“[http://www.martijn.org/info/Martijn/martijn02.pdf I Want More!]”) in Martijn (PDF, 6 Mb), December 1980, page 16-18, in Dutch.'''<br /> *:A married man reports on his 6-year-long relationship with a man who showed him erotic art and masturbated him. The relationship later turned platonic and the younger man was at the older’s deathbed 37 years later. <br /> *'''[http://www.boylover.net/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/10/194.html tribute to frank] by mick15 on BoyLover.net, December 7, 2005.'''<br /> *:A teenaged boy describes his loving, sexual relationship with his soccer mentor, who had recently died. <br /> *'''I want to speak out!!!!!!!! by “15 yr old boy” on BoyChat, September 2000.'''<br /> *:A 15-year-old boy writes about his adult lover: “He is the best thing that has ever happened to me. … I wish this world would just open its eyes and see that relationships like this are healthy and good for boys my age—but yes only if the boy wants the relationship.” <br /> *'''[http://newgon.com/CPP/Adam-mod.htm There is Magic Out There] by Joshua Adam on his website.'''<br /> *:A 13-year-old in the 10th grade writes about the emotional support he gets from his older friend, Angel, who is helping him overcome the hatred cast upon him by his family and school for liking other boys. Angel and Adam have never met in person and do not plan to do so. Their relationship is entirely nonsexual, although it is definitely one of love and mentorship.<br /> *'''Author [http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1588180395 Kirk Read]'''<br /> *: In his 2001 book, How I Learned to Snap, Kirk Read tells of his sexual experiences with adults starting at age 13, which he says saved his life. &quot;Intergenerational sex saved my life&quot;, &quot;American culture's only frame of reference for sex with minors is abuse. I don't deny that abuse occurs, but this should be addressed on a case-by-case basis. A blanket approach that criminalizes all sex between adults and minors undermines the fact that for many gay teenagers, sex with an adult can be a beautiful, life-changing experience. It was for me&quot;, &quot;I sought out sex with older men time and time again as a teenager. I had fumbling sexual encounters with other kids as a preadolescent, but they always left me unsatisfied. None of us knew what we were doing, and our shame and fear overwhelmed any joy of discovery&quot; (pp.57-59) [http://www.nambla.org/snap.htm Reviewed] by NAMbLA.<br /> <br /> *'''[http://newgon.com/CPP/Shane-mod.htm Shane] on his website'''<br /> *:A 14-year-old gay boy in Australia says, “I have one really good adult friend that knows about my sexuality, … Steve has never tried anything sexual with me, although I often wish he would.” <br /> *'''[http://www.boychat.org/messages/932399.htm Under My House . Tent Sleeping . Neighbors Bedroom] by Linca on BoyChat, July 2005. '''<br /> *:A man recounts his first experiences of sex, including with an adult neighbor at 14: “[He] did with me … what he had been wanting to do with me since I was 8 years old. We are friends to this day.” <br /> *'''Two posts by hyacinth on BoyChat: [http://newgon.com/CPP/BC-663921.htm May 2002] [1] and [http://www.boychat.org/messages/932570.htm July 2005] [2]'''<br /> *:A man describes his childhood sexual experiences with adults. The first was anal sex with a benedictine monk at 14 years old: “I was't stupid, at 14 I knew my way around … He was very nice and very gentle, and I liked him alot.” [1] Next was a relationship that lasted for a year and a half with a man and his two sons. [2] <br /> *'''[http://newgon.com/CPP/Benjamin-LettersOfBoy.htm Letters of a Loving Boy--Excerpted letters and diaries of boys], edited by Jarod Benjamin, 1997.'''<br /> *:A 14-year-old boy wrote a series of love letters, unsuccessfully courting an adult friend for a more intimate relationship. <br /> *'''[http://newgon.com/CPP/Mogenic-LikeGreece.htm Just Like Greece? — Gay Teen Dates Septuagenarian], an interview of “:John ”: by Brandon K. Thorp in ''Mogenic'', June 2006.'''<br /> *:A 22-year-old man talks about the 67-year-old man he met at the museum where they were both volunteering when he was 13. A friendship emerged based on unusually common interests for such a pair. The relationship evolved into mentoring and eventually romance, which became sexual two years later. They remained occasionally intimate for five years while the teenager also began to explore relationships with his age peers. Looking back on the man’s death when he was 20, he says, “He enhanced the quality of my youth, and his influence will likely enhance the quality of my entire adult life. And I enhanced his old age. We both got something out of it.” <br /> *'''[http://newgon.com/CPP/Aaron/index.htm Aaron], on his website'''<br /> *:A 15-year-old boy talks about his adult lover on his website. <br /> *'''[http://www.nambla.org/boys.htm Boys Speak Out on Man/Boy Love], NAMBLA, 1981.'''<br /> *:NAMBLA published a book with first-person accounts of 29 boys about their relationships with older men. Titles include ''The Best Thing That Ever Happened to Me'' by Greg, 16, ''It Shouldn’t Be a Crime to Make Love'' by Bryan, 12, ''If It Wasn’t for Mark I’d Probably Be Dead Today'' by Carl, 14, ''I Need My Lovers'' by Tyrone, 16, and ''It Was Me Who Started It'' by Frank, 15. <br /> *'''The perspective of a loving boy in [http://newgon.com/CPP/Benjamin-BoysAndBoylovers.htm On Boys and Boylovers] by Jarod Benjamin, 1997.'''<br /> *:Jarod Benjamin’s 1997 study of male-male pedophilia includes a section that reports on pedophile relationships from the point of view of boys in them. Reference is also made to 620 quotes of boys in Edward Brongersma’s [http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1557410038 Loving Boys].<br /> *'''[http://www.thinkandask.com/2006/042106-john.html Baseball, Boys, One Man on Illegal Love]'''<br /> *:A boy happily participates in a sexual and emotional relationship with an older man beginning at age 12. &quot;Jesse is less than half John's age and turned 15-years-old in April, but the boy is not his son. Jesse &quot;is my lover,&quot; John said, &quot;but the feelings are mutual, this is a consensual relationship.&quot; John met Jesse (not his real name) when the boy was homeless three years ago. [...] In Jesse's own words, &quot;John knows me, he's here inside my head already, I mean all along. He is my dad, boyfriend, best friend, brother, all in one. He's great,&quot; he grins as he chats with a friend on the office computer. [...] &quot;I brought it up and told him how I felt and offered to take care of him. That is when he said he was in love with me and never wanted to leave,&quot; John said.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.petertatchell.net/age%20of%20consent/14%20gay%20boyfriend.htm Lee]'''<br /> *:Gay sex at 8 / various illegal / all consenting &quot;Lee is 14. He's been having sex with boys since the age of eight, and with men since he was 12. Lee has a serious problem. He wants a steady relationship and has been going out recently with a guy in his mid-twenties, who he met at the hairdressers. But in the eyes of the law, Lee's partner is a paedophile and Lee is a victim of child abuse. That's not, however, the way Lee sees it: &quot;I want to have a boyfriend. It's my choice. No one's abusing me. Why should we be treated like criminals?&quot;. This is a live issue for Lee because he prefers relationships with older guys. &quot;I don't get on with people my own age&quot;, says Lee. &quot;They're too immature. I like men in their 20s or early 30s. They are more experienced and serious. With them, you can get into a closer relationship than with a teenager&quot;.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://danpedo.sexualpolitik.se/english/davidgb.php#1 David]'''<br /> *:Gay sex at 13 with a man in his mid-30s. &quot;[O]ne day he started telling me about all the boys he'd had, and.., we finally ended up in the next room. We had a good time. I actually thought it was a little funny; at one point I even started to laugh. I don't know why -- I just had this weird need to laugh. [...] It was all so new. It was exciting. [...] (Interviewer: It [your relationship] all sounds very rosy...) Yes, it's really, really great.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/vigilance-vital-to-keeping-vile-paedophiles-at-bay-57221.html Unnamed 13/14-year-old boy]'''<br /> *:Claims that he consented, but others saw it very differently! [username: as@df.com, p/w: asdf] &quot;The young lad in question, who was 13 when his contact with these paedophiles began, claims that the sexual relationships he had with them were all consensual. In other words, he is stating that he was not raped, and that, to his mind at least, there was no abuse.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.logicalreality.com/openbb/read.php?TID=1785&amp;page=4 Pat Kelly]'''<br /> *:Aged 5, he helped a boy, 17, masturbate; was grateful for his invitation (Forum down. Pat was the webmaster behind the rational humanist website LogicalReality.com and the associated forums. He claims to have enjoyed hiding in a garage and masturbating the other boy, much like a schoolboy would enjoy being allowed into the staffroom - the world of adults, with which he was so fascinated).<br /> *'''[http://www.martijn.org/info/OK41_EN_1.html Andre and Dennis]'''<br /> *:Educationalist on his relationship with a primary schoolboy. &quot;Actually, it really lasted quite a while before the sexual side of our relationship started to take shape; I did not dare begin with this so soon. André does feel a bit guilty towards Dennis' mother that he never brought up the sexuality. He asks himself if she may not have figured out after all, because every now and then she has made remarks that could point to that. She does know that Dennis and André have a very physical contact with each other and kiss each other. Basically, he would like to talk about it, but, understandably, this is not easy. On being asked, Dennis had a clear opinion: 'She does not need to know!'&quot;<br /> *'''&quot;[http://www.martijn.org/page.php?id=1171983 11-year-old faggot]&quot;'''<br /> *:Talks to NAMbLA. Boys speak out. Order: Nambla, P. O. Box 174, Midtown Sta. New York, NY10018 &quot;My first statement is that I want to dispel the image that a child is an ''innocent little puppy dog''. Children have plenty of knowledge about life, the universe and everything. But adults tend not to listen to their children. This ''innocent puppy'' syndrome represses the child's social, sexual, political, economical, and emotional desires. Children are not taken seriously and are expected to conform to a society in which they can't question its validity. This has got to stop! [...] A child is a sexual being. Therefore, children should have the right to explore any aspect of sexuality they desire to engage in. Why do parents, politicians, and police (the 3 p's) feed guilt into children that are sexually active? [...] Many people have been destroyed because of intergenerational relationships, people who could offer the world a lot if they had just not been persecuted for being different. Burning witches is a pastime which is just regaining popularity in the States.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.p-loog.info/English/interview_3_b/johnny.htm Johnny]'''<br /> *:Maternally approved Gay sex at 12 &quot;(Interviewer: What are the negative aspects of your contact with Ferdinand?) Tss ... There aren't any. [...except] to explain that to my family, or to keep his orientation hidden from them.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.p-loog.info/English/interview_3_b/peter.htm Peter]'''<br /> *:Happy with pedophile contacts from an early age (around ten) &quot;(Interviewer: What are the negative aspects of your contact with Ferdinand?) I don't have any.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.p-loog.info/English/interview_3_b/stephan.htm Stephan]'''<br /> *:Descriptive account of yet another acceptable relationship, beginning at age 11. &quot;Ferdinand really picked me up in a terrific way. I have learned lots from him, I've had many experiences and I've done lots of things with Ferdinand. I have learned something about human nature from Ferdinand. And other important things in society, responsibility, how to go about with money. I still don't do that very well, you know, it just didn't stick with me. But, you know, that sort of thing. The important things in life. Before Ferdinand I didn't know about any of these things and through him I have discovered them. Also, I always say, &quot;I didn't have a childhood until I met Ferdinand. Then I received my childhood.&quot; And that is really how it was because before that I had so many problems. [...] (Interviewer: What are the negative aspects of your contact with Ferdinand?) Not one! That is very easy to say. Not one.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://web.archive.org/web/20040823204921/http://www.logicalreality.com/openbb/read.php?TID=164 Pluto]'''<br /> *:Emotional need for sex with a boy, at 56, after enjoying the reverse long ago. Pluto's early childhood experience involved showering with a grown man, and enjoying sexual contact. At the time of the act, it would have most certainly been disapproved of, but there was no moral panic in place to rob him of his self-worth. &quot;Yes, I did have sex with an adult when I was very young--10, 11, 12 years old--and I treasure and cherish the memories... [...] I was not hurt in any way by it. i only wish there had been more times when he fooled around with me.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.ipce.info/host/sandfort_87/Appendix.htm Thijs and Joop]''' (in [[Theo Sandfort]]'s ''Boys on their contacts with men'')<br /> *:Befriended by a boylover at nine, and enjoying sex &quot;(Interviewer: What do you find the unpleasant aspects of sex with Joop?) There aren't any. I don't know of any, at least. [...] (Interviewer: Can you say who starts it, when you have sex?) Either of us. Sometimes me, yeah, mostly me. But he, too, real often. [...] (Interviewer: What do you think your mother would feel about your having sex with Joop?) I guess she'd think it was dirty. She'd think a man doing that with a child wasn't normal, that you just shouldn't do it. That's what she'd say. (Interviewer: And how do you feel about her thinking that way?) Rotten stupid! Although I wouldn't tell her it was rotten stupid. I mean, what business is it of hers? It's my business what I do. [...] (Interviewer: How do you feel about your having sex with Joop?) It's just really nice. (Interviewer: It's no problem for you?) It's just like a man going to bed with a woman--I think it's exactly the same: nice. And the feelings and so on they have, I have too.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.freewebtown.com/newsstand/archive/0316.html Unnamed Indian Boy]'''<br /> *:Newspaper article about M8 + M19 sex and the victim syndrome &quot;Once I was about 15, I grew familiar with terms like paedophilia and child abuse and started to realise what I had been through. This too had a downside. I found myself in 'the victim syndrome'. I started using this incident as an excuse to endear myself to people and constantly looked at myself as victimised in relationships and emotional circumstances. This persists even today but I try to rid myself of this misery.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showpost.php?p=3730495&amp;postcount=250 Sateryn]'''<br /> *:Got a 'kick' out of illegal sex play with adults, at five, but disliked the following investigation &quot;you know the most traumatic part about being molested as a child? sitting in a room with your parents and a therapist staring at you, forcing you to take naked cloth dolls and use them to put on a puppet show to show the adults what happened to you. the physical act of it? the molestation itself? hell, it was interesting... i was 5, it was something new, and i lucked out in that it wasn't violent, just people getting their rocks off - and quite frankly i got a kick out of it, at the time.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?p=3924233#post3924233 IIDB]'''<br /> *:Another member comments about their indifference, and expands later on. &quot;I remember one incident when I was 9 or so and my uncles were 20 and 21. They brought me and a cousin who's about my age to their room and we engaged in oral sex. It was a one-time thing, but I didn't repress the memory, felt ashamed by it, or otherwise damaged by it. We didn't talk about it though, and it doesn't come to mind often. Is that counted as abuse? I had no strong feelings about it then or now. [...] I don't claim that it didn't affect me then, but it affected me in the way sexual activities affect us at that age - that of guilt of doing something I was taught is wrong or shameful. It's the same feeling I got then after masturbation and sexual experimentation with my friends, male and female.&quot;<br /> *'''[https://www.boychat.org/messages/967788.htm Hangtwenty]'''<br /> *:1950s boylove with an oversexed 12-year-old. &quot;....The most intense affair happened between 1956 and 1958.... The boy, who was 12 when it started, not only told me that I was his 'best friend', but that I was his 'only friend'...! ....Since we both lived with our parents then, and both lived in the same apartment house, we were together alot... His intensity to be sexual with me was much stronger than mine was for him..!&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,,1589948,00.html Prominent British men on fagging in their public schools]'''<br /> *:Article by the Guardian<br /> *'''[http://www.inquisition21.com/article~view~69~page_num~2.html Gerald]'''<br /> *:Convicted for loving sex with teenage boys, after they made unfortunate spousal choices.<br /> *'''[http://www.martijn.org/info/2000_002_EN.html Dirk Tieleman]'''<br /> *:A journalist claims that a slightly coercive relationship worked to his own benefit. &quot;When I was thirteen, a boy of seventeen sexually used me for a period of time with slight coercion, but I never really felt bad about that. He jacked me off and forced me to jack him off, and at first I felt uncomfortable about that, but after a few times I began to enjoy it myself and the aspect of coercion trailed off. Off course, being a thirteen-year-old boy, I found it curious that I was doing such things with another boy, but I realize now that this first sexual experience has helped me approach girls - to whom I was far more attracted - confidently and without qualms later on. That first sexual experience with a boy was, to me, the perfect introduction to sexuality. [...] In the past years, since the Dutoux scandal, I've been hearing people say all the time that any form of sex with children would automatically lead to great disturbances and 'damage the innocent child's soul beyond repair', but I feel confident in stating with absolute certainty that I haven't suffered the least bit of damage from my first sexual experiences with that older boy - not as a child, and not now. On the contrary: I have always had a very normal and healthy sex life, perhaps even because of that first experience.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_553687.html Kevin B. Johnson's Boyfriend]'''<br /> *:&quot;The second boy [15/16?] described a sexual relationship with Johnson that began when the youth was a freshman in 2004 and continued until last month. He told police, &quot;I am not a victim. I was a willing participant,&quot; according to the affidavit.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.ipce.info/booksreborn/martinson/infant/InfantAndChildSexuality.html Floyd Martinson in his book &quot;Infant and Child Sexuality&quot;]'''<br /> *:Martinson quotes another's experience: &quot;My first homosexual experience came at the age of five or six, when I would play with this boy who was at that time about sixteen. He would ask me if I wanted to go into his house for something to eat, like some cookies or something. Of course I would go. Next he would ask me if I would go into the bedroom with him. Upon entering the bedroom, he would undress and ask me to do the same. I would, probably out of fright. I distinctly remember his body being very hairy, so perhaps I underestimated his age. Anyway, after undressing, he would tell me to bend over and then he would insert his erect penis into my anal region and start thrusting back and forth. He would then stimulate my penis and want me to do the same to him. We also masturbated each other, with him reaching orgasm and myself only being stimulated. I also spent some time in oral-genital contact. I did find the whole experience quite pleasing and continued to engage in these activities for a week or two. Then, and I don't recall why, we suddenly stopped doing it completely.&quot; <br /> *'''[http://home.wanadoo.nl/ipce/library_two/rind/rind_gay_boys_app.htm Bruce Rind, quoting accounts from Savin-Williams (1997).]'''<br /> *:[B: 13, M: 22] &quot;Subject and adult brother often massaged each other. &quot;This time, however, I got a little hard and then he noted I had grown so much since he last saw me naked. He asked me jokingly if he could suck my dick. I said 'yes' so we got off on each other. He did me and then I did him. He came all over me but I did not. This lasted a month until he headed back to work. I do miss him as a friend and a brother. Was nothing romantic.&quot; Subject added, &quot;I liked it, ... felt good. I wanted to do it again and again. I already knew my brother was gay and that I was attracted to men so this did not prove or disprove that I was gay.&quot;<br /> *:[B: 15, M: 27] &quot;[It was with] the mailman, honest to God! On and off for two years. The first time was when I came to the door to get a special delivery package in my sheer designer underwear, from American Male. I was changing to go back to school. He sprouted a boner, I got hard, he grabbed mine, I grabbed his, and we were off and running. Every day I'd come home for lunch; my mother worked. I had to be quick so he'd not get docked for late deliveries. He had a real thing for redheads like me. He was very forward, connected with me, and told me how hot I was. Talked about our backgrounds. It ended when he suddenly got transferred and contact became difficult. We visited each other and had sex, but it was hard and we agreed mutually because of the distance that it was better that we be friends and not lovers&quot; (p. 172).<br /> *:[B: 12, M: 22] It lasted 9 months with his science teacher. &quot;It developed over time and was great. We became friends and I invited him over once when my parents weren't home. I practically had to force sex on him because he was afraid about losing his job. Ended when I went away for the summer and he wasn't a teacher at my school no more&quot; (p. 163). &quot; <br /> *:[B: 12, M: 35] The man was a family friend; the sex was mutually initiated, oral, off and on for 10 years (a couple of times per month), and &quot;physically great.&quot; It confused the subject that the man was married, yet was willing to have sex with him. &quot;Eventually I fell in love with him; knew I was gay but did not broadcast this; I was curious because of the age difference. Mutual oral sex happened after he fondled me; it was the first orgasm I ever had.&quot; <br /> *:[B: 13, M: 38] &quot;Family friend. I initiated on a camping trip; we were in same tent at state park; oral sex to orgasm for both of us; several times during the night; incredibly erotic, tremendous release, very pleasurable. Not real close; didn't enjoy kissing. Afterwards scary because I enjoyed it so much. Not wanting to be near him on the trip because afraid others would notice. Once per month for the next 4 years that I initiated; never talked about it; sex was all it was. Wished I was straight so the attractions would go away, because the sexual gratification was so strong.&quot; <br /> *:[B: 14, M: 26] &quot;It was with a stranger; he initiated it; it involved oral and mutual masturbation, we did it 10 more times. I was excited, was loved and in love, got affection, but was not prepared for sex. It was not so l much that I wanted his affection; I was attracted to him. This relationship lasted a week then three months later we met again and we were sexual.&quot;<br /> <br /> *'''[[Bruce Rind]] - “The Problem with Consensus Morality”, ''Archives of Sexual Behavior,'' Vol. 31, No. 6, December 2002'''<br /> <br /> ::&quot;These are based on a sampling of interviews I recently conducted on individuals who learned about me from publicity surrounding my publications and contacted me to tell their stories. These cases, involving five men who had sex as boys around age 10 with men, dispute Schmidt’s claim that there can never be sexual consensus between prepubescents and adults. The cases are cross-national, coming from Australia, Canada, England, France, and the United States. The first three men are homosexual and the last two are heterosexual. All names have been altered to preserve confidentiality.<br /> <br /> :*Case 1. Nathan, a 45-year-old Brit, began being intensely curious about adult male genitalia when he was 8. At this age, in attempt to satisfy this curiosity, he surreptitiously went into the room of his household’s sleeping man servant and fondled him under his bed covers. By age 10, his curiosity had turned into sexual arousal. He unsuccessfully tried to solicit sex from men in locker rooms. At age 11, he met a neighbor man, whom he worked on over many visits in attempt to initiate sex. Eventually, he succeeded. In his many repeats with the man over the next 2 years, Nathan reported that he was the “conductor” - he controlled the sexual interactions. While still a boy, he had several other sexual relations with men, all of which he viewed as very positive. He thinks the sex helped his sexual self-confidence: as he matured, he knew exactly what he wanted in sex, while his peers were still searching.<br /> <br /> :*Case 2. James, a 23-year-old Canadian, first felt sexually aroused by other males at age 6 and had his first sex at 8 with a peer. At 11, he befriended a neighbor man, towhom he gave many signals, hoping for sex to occur. Eventually, it did, which made him feel proud and closer to the man. Over the next 3 years, he visited the man regularly, often secretly to avoid the possibility of his parents ending the relationship. He saw the relationship as very positive and said it built his personality (e.g., greater self-confidence) and influenced many of his tastes (e.g., an appreciation for literature).<br /> <br /> :*Case 3. Daniel, a 33-year-old Frenchman, was physically affectionate with his father starting at age 6. By 8, he became sexually attracted to him. At 10, he initiated sexual fondling with him, which the father accepted. In the sexual relationship, which lasted 4 years, Daniel always initiated the sex. In retrospect, he cherished the intimacy and described the relationship as &quot;beautiful, pure, security, confidence, and love.&quot; He said it built his sexual self-confidence.<br /> <br /> :*Case 4. At age 8, Dennis, a 21-year-old American, initiated sexual contact with a man friendly with his family, whom he suspected of being involved with his older brother. Sex occurred between them for the next 2 years. He said he usually initiated the encounters because he was always ready for sex. He described the relationship as the most positive he has ever had. He saw himself as having the upper hand, because he felt he had control over the man, who went to great lengths to fulfill his wishes. He felt that his adolescent and adult sexual relations went more smoothly because of the competence he got from these early experiences. Asked how a heterosexual male could have enjoyed homosexual relations, he answered that he was attracted to sex back then, not females or males per se.<br /> <br /> :*Case 5. John, a 22-year-old Australian, first realized his sexual arousal to girls at age 8. By 9, he felt lonely and was bullied by older boys, when he met a male neighbor in his late teens. They quickly became friends, and John spent a lot of time at his house. The young man eventually initiated masturbatory sex with him. John was at first apprehensive that others would find out, but became comfortable with the sex once he felt safe from this concern. The relationship lasted 3 years. He was proud to be seen with the older male, saw him as his protector, and saw the intimacy they had as the highlight of his life. Asked if the relationship was consenting, he said yes, because he wanted it, the young man wanted it, he loved the young man, so consent meant, &quot;Yes, do it.&quot;&quot;<br /> <br /> *'''[http://www.ipce.info/ipceweb/Library/01oct01c_my_father.htm My Father and I]'''<br /> *:Positive man-boy incest is interrupted by a mother. &quot;My father molested me from the time I was two till I was 15. We would lie naked and he would play with my penis. Then he would give me oral sex. When I was old enough I then started sucking him too. He never hurt me or tried to have anal sex with me, even though I wanted him to. I had anal sex with him, a few times, once my father decided my penis was big enough. My father and I would plan things around the times where we could meet and make each other feel good. My mother found out and two months ago my father was sent to prison. What my father did to me was not rape, at all. He never hurt me. In fact, I looked forward to spending the time with him but my mother and the police don't seem to listen.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.ipce.info/ipceweb/Library/00dec18c_a_professor_speaks.htm William Percy]'''<br /> *:Article &quot;UMASS professor advocates pederasty.&quot; William Armstrong Percy III says that when he was 14, he seduced a male soldier while traveling on a train. &quot;I never got enough sex with an older man. I don't see that I was harmed at all, except being deprived of not having more,&quot; said Percy. &quot;I was already the aggressor.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.ipce.info/library_3/files/tindall.htm The male adolescent involved with a pederast becomes an adult]'''<br /> *:Several accounts. &quot;During his 11th year he began spending his spare time around a service station, where he became acquainted with a master mechanic who was then in his early 40s, married, and childless. [...] On a fishing trip, during a break on an island, they began talking about sex, which led to Denver's being fellated by the mechanic and to masturbation of the mechanic by Denver. For the next 5 years mutual fellatio occurred two or three times per week. Sexual activity with the mechanic ceased at about age 19, but a close relationship continued to exist until the mechanic's death. Denver is now 44 years of age. [...] Denver remarried and has been a valued mechanic with the same company for 20 years. He has a supervisory position and believes that his relationship with his mechanic friend helped him reach his goals. He says he would have approved a similar relationship for either of his sons, had he become aware of such a situation. He reports no desire to have sex with males since approximately age 20.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/10/19/national/main2104978.shtml Mark Foley]'''<br /> *:Former American Republican, @13y/o. &quot;The Rev. Anthony Mercieca, 72, described several encounters that he said Foley might perceive as sexually inappropriate, the Sarasota Herald-Tribune reported. They include massaging Foley while the boy was naked, skinny-dipping together at a secluded lake in Lake Worth and being nude in the same room on overnight trips. &quot;Once maybe I touched him or so ... but I didn't, it's not something you call rape or penetration or anything like that,&quot; Mercieca told West Palm Beach station WPTV in a phone interview. &quot;He seemed to like it, you know? So it was sort of more like a spontaneous thing&quot;. Mercieca said.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://richarddawkins.net/article,118,Religionrsquos-Real-Child-Abuse,Richard-Dawkins Richard Dawkins]'''<br /> *:From an article of his, that despite not being exactly sex - positive, goes as far as is 'acceptable' in playing down the impact of nonviolent, situational fondling of children by priests, whilst attacking the religious dogmas that sometimes cause so much shame after such encounters. &quot;Being fondled by the Latin master in the Squash Court was a disagreeable sensation for a nine-year-old, a mixture of embarrassment and skin-crawling revulsion, but it was certainly not in the same league as being led to believe that I, or someone I knew, might go to everlasting fire. As soon as I could wriggle off his knee, I ran to tell my friends and we had a good laugh, our fellowship enhanced by the shared experience of the same sad pedophile. I do not believe that I, or they, suffered lasting, or even temporary damage from this disagreeable physical abuse of power. Given the Latin Master’s eventual suicide, maybe the damage was all on his side.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.ipce.info/ipceweb/Statements/factoids.htm Heinz Kohut]'''<br /> *:Strozier, quoting the Psychologist on his relationship as a child: &quot;I had this private tutor, who was a very important person in my life. He would take me to museums and swimming and concerts and we had endless intellectual conversations and played complicated intellectual games and played chess together&quot; They also did sexual things together, which they both enjoyed, but Kohut felt the sex was more or less incidental. The important thing for him was the relationship. He said &quot;I was an only child. So it was in some way psychologically life-saving for me. I was very fond of this fellow.&quot; Heinz was about 10 or 11 at the time. He describes his years with his tutor as being perhaps the happiest ones in his life.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://news.scotsman.com/farrightineurope/Fortuyn-favoured-depraved.2326187.jp Pim Fortuyn]'''<br /> *:Populist, anti - immigration, homosexual Politician from the Netherlands (deceased): &quot;Fortuyn's first experience occurred when he was five years old. &quot;The Dutch soldier asks if I want to see his tent. That's what I want. I like it and they all are sleeping on the ground in a sleeping-bag. I ask if it is hard and cold to sleep on the ground. Oh no, come here. Together we crawl in his sleeping-bag. The soldier asks my name and I ask his name. “He is called Arie and he asks if I like that name. Yes, I think that's a nice name and I lie beside him, nice and warm.&quot; Fortuyn then described a close sexual encounter with the soldier before leaving his sleeping-bag &quot;to go and play outside.&quot; He added: &quot;Can I come back tomorrow? Yes, tomorrow I may come back, says Arie.&quot; A few pages later, he describes another incident: &quot;I went to the park for a walk, it was very silent and the sun was shining. On the bench sat a young fellow. I stood still, curious.&quot; Fortuyn relates another sexual encounter - this time in explicit detail. He concludes: &quot;I was frightened and ran away to my home, to my mother. Excited, I ran into the room. My mother looked at me searchingly and asked what had happened. Nothing, of course. Watch out, little man, was the only thing she said. A glass of lemonade made me calm down. Yes, that was exciting.&quot; Most telling is his appraisal of these memories. &quot;In chapter 1 about the 1950s, I wrote about my early sexual experiences, experiences that I see as an enrichment. Today, an experience like that in the park could easily lead to a complaint by parents to the police because of paedophilia, and the relevant young man would be in trouble. But why? &quot;He didn't do me any harm. On the contrary, he showed me something that was incomprehensibly exciting and I could feel and touch it, but today we are ready to interfere with complete teams of professionals. By interfering in such an irritating and grown-up way in the world of children, we make an enormous problem of something that for a child is no problem at all and is only exciting.&quot;&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.mwillett.org/Debate/viewtopic.php?p=121929#121929 Todd Nickerson]'''<br /> *:A self-declared pedophile writes: &quot;I did have a single sexual encounter with an adult when I was a child, though I would hardly describe it as traumatic or even unpleasant. My memory of being touched—and that’s all it amounted to—is that it was, at most, a little confusing since I didn’t really understand what was taking place. Not that I really minded, though. In fact, after it occurred, I went immediately to a relative and bragged to her about it.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.boylover.net/ Boylover.net member on experiences as an 11-year-old boy]'''<br /> *:&quot;We piled back into the limo and it drove us to Toronto where we went to a stage play. I don’t remember what we saw because my head was still spinning about the fact that this attractive man, one who could have any female he wanted, was in love with me and was doing all this to make this night as special as he could. After the play, we headed for home. Limo drivers must have orders to ignore whatever they see going on in the back because ours got quite an eyeful. He was treated to the sight of an eleven-year-old boy and a nineteen-year-old man acting like boyfriends. We kissed, we petted, and we worked each other into an erotic frenzy, a frenzy for which there could only be one consummation.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.boylover.net/ Boylover.net member on intercourse]'''<br /> *:&quot;I was 10 and it was with an Adult Friend. I did not, nor do I now think I was abused. (well not by my AF anyway) I liked it. We only ever did the things I wanted to do.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.helping-people.info/Treatment/sot/offender.htm#3-6a_narrative_force Frans Gieles in an article of his]'''<br /> *:&quot;Craisatie (1998, among others page 117) describes a client who, as a child, had frequented a group, which in the book was called 'a child pornography ring'. As a child, he never had seen this as being abuse. Contrarily, he said that he'd gotten a lot of love, comradeship and care, which he did not get at home. Craisatie describes it as an example of successful treatment that his client ultimately abandoned his feeling of being loved and changed it into the feeling of being abused although this occurred only gradually and very late in the treatment process [...] Ehrenreich (2004) describes a man who for nineteen years was held in a closed clinic. He denied his offense, thus refused to speak about it, thus he did not cooperate, thus year after year his stay was renewed. Then, he changed tack: he 'acknowledged' his offense, he spoke about it, he did exactly what the therapists ordered, and said that he benefited from their treatment. This was the only way to be released. The man has been released. Then it turned out that his accusers had lied about everything they had said, under high pressure of the police: there never had been an offense.&quot;<br /> *'''Boy in Dan Tsang (1981)''', &quot;The age taboo&quot;. London: Gay Men's Press. <br /> *:&quot;It's often not the man who goes out to seduce the boy, but the other way round. In my first experience, I did the seducing. . . . It is mostly the boys who go out in search of sexual satisfaction from men...&quot;<br /> *'''[http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=bta8oOuDtoI (Man?) on YouTube]'''<br /> *:An extremely detailed account that was hindered by a voice concealer. Person had a positive relationship as youngster, and has met pedophiles.<br /> *'''[http://www.sunstar.com.ph/static/net/2007/10/19/orphans.admit.clown.fondled.them.html Carlock the Clown]'''<br /> *:Some young children pleaded with authorities not to press charges against a clown who played with them sexually. &quot;Surprisingly though, when asked by American embassy officials if they wanted their &quot;Kuya Paul&quot; charged in court for abusing them, all the three kids pleaded with the officials not to file a case against Carlock. &quot;Please don't file a case against Kuya Paul. He is a good man, he is a good man,&quot; the kids said. &quot;The kids told me that they loved the man so much because he was so good to them. They said they treated the man as their father. Paul gave them candies, lollipops,&quot; Karasuyama said.&quot; The clown was eventually [http://illinoishomepage.net/content/fulltext/?cid=9747 tasered and killed by police].<br /> *'''[http://terrygeorge.co.uk/home/?topic=440 Terry George on &quot;phone sex&quot; with Michael Jackson]'''<br /> *:According to George, Michael Jackson engaged him in &quot;phone sex&quot; at the age of 13: &quot;I do not feel like a victim and I never did feel like a victim,&quot; he said. See [http://terrygeorge.co.uk/home/?folder=13 directory] for other articles.<br /> *'''[http://www.freetimes.com/stories/13/43/confessions-of-a-proud-pedophile-phillip-distasio-says-getting-caught-was-all-part-of-his-plan Phillip Distasio]'''<br /> *:Imprisoned for life; a proud pedophile activist who had a relationship with an older man at 12. &quot;Distasio describes himself as a second-generation pedophile: at the age of 12, he began a relationship with an older man, a swimming instructor named Charlie, at a boys' club in Massachusetts. He says he's known about his proclivity since age 9. &quot;To me,&quot; he says, “it is as valid as any other sexual orientation.&quot;&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.broadbandreports.com/shownews/Cleaning-Up-Tor-82218 &quot;Jay78&quot; commenting on broadbandreports.com]'''<br /> *:&quot;Also, when I was about 6 years of age I was sexually &quot;used&quot; without coercion by an adult family member in ways that today would have put that person in prison. I almost forgot about that seemingly anecdotal incident and memory until I was reminded of it by the current hysteria over that kind of thing. Compared with the other things I experienced, that was not even worth thinking of, I would never hurt that person who did that and have a good relationship with that person today.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.ipce.info/library_3/files/rivas_howard_miller.htm &quot;Howard Miller&quot; as told to Titus Rivas, Ipce]'''<br /> *:&quot;We would zip our sleeping bags together and he would tickle and massage me all over. He would tell me dirty jokes while helping me with my homework and get me aroused. Then we would masturbate together. He satisfied me and then himself or we satisfied ourselves while watching each other. I thought that he was fascinating to look at and occasionally touch but not to satisfy. [...] I have only good feelings about what happened but am sad that most people will never be able to understand that. I also wish that we didn't have to worry about each other getting into trouble with the society over what happened. [...] Because I had such a positive experience as a child I believe that I can say with absolute certainty that sometimes such relationships can be very positive. Notice I don't say that they always will be, but heck more than 50% of marriages end in divorce. Most real child abuse occurs in families. Should then marriage be outlawed?&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.boylover.net/info/scrapbook/kolya_03.html Loren Robb and Kolya - Bulletin]'''<br /> *:A man tells of his loving relationship with a young native Arctic boy who he brought up in New Zealand.<br /> *'''[http://youfoundme.org/mylife.html My Life - Youfoundme.org]'''<br /> *:A very long testimony written by a person known to a contact of Newgon.com. &quot;It was the end of that summer that I learned what real heartache felt like. Sex was never the dominating factor in my relationship with James. I wanted to fool around a lot more than he did but I just liked being with him. He knew so much about construction and getting things to work that it was like being at school all the time except it was fun. Like any kid who hears his dad tell the same joke all the time I got tired of hearing &quot;plumbings easy boy, just remember shit flows down hill&quot;. What I really didn't want to hear was the day James told me we couldn't do the sex thing anymore. I don't recall his exact words but something to the effect &quot;this just isn't right or this isn't normal&quot;. I was crushed. It (our friendship) seemed so normal and great to me that I didn't understand why he felt that way. My suffering didn't come from the hands of an abuser, my suffer came from the words of a man who feared for my wellbeing. I kept telling him I was okay with things and nothing needed to change. Change did come and even my begging wouldn't get him to monkey around with me. It happened once or twice after the big talk but it was never the same.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2372/is_4_41/ai_n9488757/pg_1 Jessica L. Stanley (Researcher)]'''<br /> *:&quot;One man, at 14 years old, researched the location of gay bars and met a man with whom he had a few sexual encounters and with whom he has maintained a friendship for nearly 20 years.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2372/is_3_39/ai_94130312 Curtis Dolezal (Researcher)]'''<br /> *:&quot;participant was 10 when he had sexual contact on 20 occasions over 3 months with a 25-year-old male neighbor. The events involved mutual masturbation and oral sex. The participant did not feel coerced or hurt and did not feel it was sexual abuse &quot;because I seduced the neighbor.&quot;<br /> *'''[[Paedophilia: The radical case|O'Carroll 1980, p.83-84]]'''<br /> *:&quot;As a boy he became sexually mature at age twelve-and-a-half. &quot;It was like the world was beginning to make sense, to take on purpose and meaning. [...] I regard my meeting with Mr. S., then aged twenty-six, as a critical turning point in my love life. Until then, sex was fun, felt good and left me only moderately guilty. Once I approached Mr.S. (Yes, I approached him) with my thirteen-year-old impatience for intimacy, he told no one, responded positively to my shaky advances (didn't even laught at me!) and simply embraced me. [...] Here was a masculine adult man (happily married even), who was interested in doing with me what I was already finding exciting with my boy-friends. And through this relationship a new dimension was added to my experience which has not occurred to me before - tenderness, affection and love. (...) This affection was, in its way, just as satisfying as the ecstatic orgasms that punctuated our days and nights together. I regard this man, this relationship as a turning point because I was never the same after knowing him for two years - I was more in tune with myself after that...&quot;.<br /> *'''[[Sex met kinderen]], pages 75-76. (Untranslated - [[Frits Bernard]])'''<br /> *:A 25 year old man tells of a relationship struck up with a gay man when he was eight. They started having sex when he was ten, something that he enjoyed. The relationship lasts until he is 18.<br /> *'''&quot;En me vriendje houdt van mij: 23 verhalen uit het leven gegrepen&quot;, edited by Ben Füss and Gorrit Goslinga (Eindhoven: Stichting Uitgeverij NVSH, 1981)'''<br /> *:&quot;We had just moved and that was how I met a nice man, as a 13-year-old. We talked a lot, in his room. He was very interested in art and possessed a lot of books with pictures of works of art and sculpture. I had little interest for this but did not want to hurt Dick's feelings. Only the pictures that showed nudity captured my interest. I also tried to hide this. [...]&quot; This interest was noticed by Dick and it led to Dick briefly caressing the boy's genitals. Dick was very cautious and tried to end it immediately. The boy was very eager to have additional sexual experiences and finally persuaded Dick to allow him a visit. One thing led to another and the end result was a tender sexual relationship that lasted for about six years. After the war he re-established a life-long friendship with Dick, though without the sexual aspect. He was there when Dick died at age 83. He adds: &quot;The value of this relationship is something I continue to cherish till this very day.&quot;<br /> *'''[http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/15/science/15gajdusek.html &quot;D. Carleton Gajdusek, Who Won Nobel for Work on Brain Disease, Is Dead at 85&quot;]'''<br /> *:&quot;D. Carleton Gajdusek, a virologist who won the 1976 Nobel Prize in medicine for his work on the mysterious epidemics now known as prion diseases, died last week in Tromso, Norway. [...] In later life, Dr. Gajdusek became notorious when he was charged with molesting the many young boys he had adopted in New Guinea and Micronesia and brought to live with him in Maryland. He pleaded guilty to one charge, served a year in prison and left the United States in 1998, dividing his time between Paris, Amsterdam and Tromso. [...] He also remained unrepentant about the sexual relationships with his adopted sons, Dr. Klitzman said. He considered American law prudish and pointed out that sex with young men was normal in the cultures he studied and in the classic Greek societies at the foundation of Western civilization. His legal assistant, Dorrie Runman, who was previously married to one of his sons, John Runman, said Dr. Gajdusek’s survivors included “his adopted sons and daughters, including Yavine Borimaand Jesse Mororui-Gajdusek in the United States, and two nephews, Karl Lawrence Gajdusek and Mark Terry.” His children were legally adopted, Ms. Runman said. He put several through college and graduate or medical school. Some of them, now in their 50s, supported him during his legal troubles, while one sibling testified against him.&quot;<br /> <br /> *'''[http://www.jungsforum.net/politik/messages/159581.htm Anon, in Berliner Zeitung (Translation)]'''<br /> *:&quot;Being 52 now, I got a relationship with a man at the age of 8-9 of whom I was told later that he was a paedophile. The relationship went on until I was about 14 years old and we were lucky that it remained undiscovered and free of police enquiries. Even today, so many years later, I remember my big friend with gratitude, as he made my coming out as a gay person later on – and many other things in my life - a lot easier for me. Since then, I have met numerous people who also had [consensual] sexual relationships with adults as children and teenagers and who are not ashamed of this. It is easy to understand why such people never get in touch with abuse counseling agencies, because they really don't need such help. That's how such centres get a completely one-sided view of so-called victims of abuse.&quot;.<br /> <br /> *'''''Paedophilia - What It Means To The Child'' by [[Frits Bernard]], printed in [http://exitinterview.biz/rarities/panfull.htm PAN 3] (pp. 15 - 17)'''<br /> **&quot;I was about 13 when I had my first paedophile experience. [...] The man who brought me into touch with homosexuality and whom I even loved physically was, and still is, one of my dearest friends. I remember what a wonderful feeling it was when he satisfied me for the first time. I was not troubled in the least by worries over having done 'perverted things', probably because I had no idea of what such things were. [...] The only trouble I have had over this was when I first told my fiancée about it.&quot;<br /> **&quot;When I was seven I had contact with a man who was especially nice to me. He used to take me to his attic, sit me on his lap and play with me sexually. I thought it was very nice and enjoyed it. I always looked forward to Wednesday afternoons, the days when we saw each other. This went on for a long time. Later I had many contacts with other men, but never with boys my own age. One day I went with a waiter to his house. I was very interested and excited. We had unusually satisfying sex together. I must have been about 14. Back home I was restless and went to see him the very next day on my own initiative. We had intercourse about twenty times in the following period. [...] Now, after a good life, I can see these early contacts as very positive to my development. I would not like to have missed them and I do not envy the people who never had these opportunities.&quot;<br /> **&quot;When I was about eight years old I got to know a man in the street who thought I played very nicely. He invited me out for a bicycle ride, and later to visit his home. [...] From him I received love, which actually I had never known (not, I mean, in the way I know it at present from my wife). [...] Later, when I was ten or eleven, we had sex with each other, something I always enjoyed.&quot;<br /> **Several further accounts involving slightly older minors are available in the article.<br /> <br /> *'''Zimmerman, Ann (1994). &quot;[http://www.dallasobserver.com/1994-11-17/news/tell-mama-why-you-cry-part-i/5 'Tell Mama Why You Cry' (Part I)],&quot; ''Dallas Observer'', November 17.'''<br /> *:&quot;The tape of Tim's interview could not be located, but according to Black's notes, Tim had seen his father touch his sister on her private parts on several occasions. &quot;He stated his father tickles Lima on her private parts and she likes it. When questioned further, Tim revealed his father also touches him on his private parts...at his house...Tim stated he doesn't mind his father doing this.&quot;<br /> <br /> *'''[[Terry Leahy]]: Positively Experienced Man/Boy Sex : The Discourse of Seduction and the Social Construction of Masculinity, ''Australian and New Zealand Journal of Sociology'' 28,1 (1992) pp. 71-88.'''<br /> *:A study of eight people who perceived their childhood (under 16) contacts with adults positively.<br /> *:&quot;Derek describes his first sexual encounter with a man in the following way. He is at the park at six o’clock on the swing. A man rushes towards him and begins to strip off:<br /> *::I just sat there looking. I didn’t know what to do but sort of thrilling. I looked, gawked, sort of ... I didn’t mind, I just kept on swinging on the swing. And I wasn’t scared or anything and he just come up to me and said ’Oh, how are ya?’ and I said ’Oh, not too bad’. In other words, coming on to me. And he turned around and said, ’Oh, what’s your name?’ And I’d tell him my name ’cause I wasn’t scared or anything because it was in a park and it was about six o’clock, really early, six, you know what I mean. And he just said, ’Would you like a drink?’ and I said ’No’. Then I started getting a bit nervy, nervous sort of thing. I knew, I must ... I knew in a way that he’d do something. So I just sat there, you know, and he said, ’Oh, would you like to come for a drive?’ Well I rushed him! So I just went for a drive with him and there we got off. First time, we got off ... I wanted to try it out. So I tried it. It was a really good feeling. Ever since then I kept on going.<br /> *:Here the narrative of this event begins with Derek sitting innocently on the swing. A man appears with obvious sexual intentions. Derek is instantly thrilled and takes voyeuristic pleasure in seeing him undress. He is not scared to go with the man and in fact ’rushes’ him. The sex is great and he has an orgasm. Even anal sex, though a bit uncomfortable at first, is enjoyed. All this has happened because he wanted to try it out and having done so he is eager to repeat the experience. This is typical of the discourse of male adolescent sexuality - spontaneous, adventurous, sexual pleasure is guaranteed, and casual contact is exciting. Derek presents himself as an active and initiating party. The events that take place are in reponse to his emerging self constituted sexual desire. All this works against any interpretation of Derek as a victim of homosexual seduction. Summarising his attitude to these sexual encounters on another occasion he concludes:<br /> *::I mean to say, sex is sex, you gotta, you know, well ... The way I feel, what would you do without it? It’s just something normal. Sex is just normal for everybody. Not just for me, for everybody and to do without ... I reckon it would be pretty hard to do without it so you’re just going to have to think.<br /> *:[...]<br /> *:Christopher’s interview provides a thorough discussion of these issues. At the time when he was interviewed he was in his mid thirties. His relationship with an adult gay man, George, began when he was about nine years old and lasted till he was eighteen. In a wry comment on the discourse of seduction he offered this remark:<br /> *::So I suppose then, you want to know now if I’m fucked up now sexually because of this terrible trauma of my childhood? Well - no. Umm. My main thrust - pun! - is heterosexual but ahh, I still occasionally sleep with males but when I say occasionally I mean very occasionally.<br /> *:[...]<br /> *:In particular, in discussing the various sexual activities in which he was engaged, Christopher stresses the physical pleasures of various acts and argues that his initial reservations about particular practices (oral sex, anal sex) were broken down as he received physical pleasure from these activities and came to feel that it was only fair to reciprocate.&quot;<br /> <br /> *'''[[Frits Bernard|Bernard, F.]] (1979). &quot;[http://exitinterview.biz/rarities/pan/htmfiles/pan3p13.htm Paedophilia: What it means to the child]&quot; ''[[PAN]]'', November 1979.'''<br /> <br /> :*A heterosexual male recalls at age 24: &quot;I had my first sexual contact with an older man in Rotterdam... It was nothing more than each of us quickly masturbating each other, looking shyly around us. Once this corner was turned a lot of other experiences followed. I can't say much about them, just sex and nothing more. One of the reasons nothing lasted was that the men were dead scared of being trapped. The iniative always came from me. I used to wear my shortest and cutest shorts and stroll across the market squares and through the busiest streets of Rotterdam until I saw someone I thought was 'like that' and then I allowed myself to be 'seduced'. That went on until I was 17. [...] I have no regrets about this period. I am only sorry that I never had what I was really looking for: an older friend with whom I could enjoy not only sex but all kinds of things, someone who could teach me about everything.&quot;<br /> <br /> :*An engaged, heterosexual male recalls at age 23: &quot;I was about 13 when I had my first paedophile experience (...) The man who brought me into touch with homosexuality and whom I even loved physically was, and still is, one of my dearest friends. I remember what a wonderful feeling it was when he satisfied me for the first time.&quot; Despite this, the man makes it clear that he does not approve of pedophilic contact, as it happens today.<br /> <br /> :*A heterosexual adult recalls at age 37: &quot;I must have been 14 [or] 15 at the time of my first sexual encounter with a man of about 30. I enjoyed these experiences. (...) I am now married and have four children. People with this inclination should fit into society and our society should accept this as natural. But it will be a very long time before this happens. (...) My earlier contacts of this kind were so upsetting to my parents that, at the time, I always had the feeling that I was dong something wrong. Now I see it as part of a personal experience which I would not like to see removed from my life.&quot;<br /> <br /> :*A gay man recalls at 67, the following contact with a 35-year-old man: &quot;When I was 7, I had contact with a man who was especially nice to me. He used to take me to his attic, had me sit on his lap and we had sexual contact with each other. I really found it pleasant and enjoyed it. I was always looking forward to Wednesday afternoons, the days we saw each other. This went on for a long period of time. [...] Now, as a nearly 68-year-old man, who has had a good life, I regard these contacts I used to have as very positive for my development. I would not have wanted to miss them, and I do not envy people who have never not had these opportunities. [...] Later I had many contacts with other men, but never with boys my own age. One day I went with a waiter to his house. I was very interested and excited. We had unusually satisfying sex together. I must have been about 14. Back home I was restless and went to see him the very next day on my own initiative. We had intercourse about twenty times in the following period.&quot;<br /> <br /> :*A straight man recalls at 25, the following relationship: &quot;When I was about eight years old I got to know a man in the street who thought I played very nicely. He invited me out for a bicycle ride, and later to visit his home (...) Gradually, we got to know each other... and I came to realise that he was homosexual. This did not shock me; I just wanted to know more about it. (...) From him I received love, which actually I had never known (...) Later, when I was ten or eleven, we had sex with each other, some-thing I always enjoyed. That lasted until I was eighteen, when I started going steady with a girl. When I became engaged I was able to tell my future wife with an easy mind about my youthful experiences. She could appreciate the whole thing very well. [We have] an especially good marriage, an especially fine sexual relationship, and an especially dear little daughter.&quot;<br /> <br /> *'''Wolf Vogel (author) ''[http://www.ipce.info/host/rivas/boys_men/bjorn.htm Heimliche Liebe: Eros zwischen Knabe und Mann]'', 1997. Translator writes of the following translation: &quot;includes the remarkable case of Björn and Jan, located in a major town in the North of Germany.&quot;'''<br /> <br /> :*&quot;When Björn (32) was a young boy, he met his adult friend Jan (45) and they still had a sexual relationship at the time of the interview. As a 10-year-old boy, Björn felt attracted to social worker Jan because of the latter's revolutionary ideas and Björn tried to provoke him with a lot of questions and remarks about sexuality. One day, when Björn was eleven and a half, they happened to meet near the town's riverbank. Björn tried to get Jan sexually interested in him and when they met at Jan's place he finally succeeded. Björn really wanted Jan to penetrate him, but Jan declined the offer and it took Björn a year to convince him that he was not afraid of getting physically hurt in the process. The boy really enjoyed this type of penetrative sexual contact and now that he's an adult, he's still doing it quite often with Jan. He remarks that if one wishes to speak of seduction in this relationship, it was him who was the seducing party. Their relationship has always stayed a secret for the people in their environment. Jan used to help Björn with the problems he was having with his parents, and also with his educational and professional progress.&quot;<br /> <br /> *'''Seth Mydans (author) ''[http://www.nytimes.com/1989/02/05/world/in-a-philippine-town-child-prostitution-despite-protests-is-a-way-of-life.html In a Philippine Town, Child Prostitution, Despite Protests, Is a Way of Life]'', 1989.'''<br /> <br /> :*&quot;Drive into this green and quiet town [Pangsanjan, Philippines] 40 miles southeast of Manila and groups of men will run alongside your car, banging on the windows, offering a choice of the local attractions: A boat ride to the scenic waterfall or a child prostitute. (...) When Mrs. Zaide's group, the Council of Citizens for the Protection of Children, pasted up posters warning against prostitution, the citizens of Pagsanjan tore them down. Stones were thrown at the houses of council members. When the Immigration Commission a year ago arrested 22 foreigners who were engaged in prostitution rings, some parents, the recipients of their largesse, testified in their defense. (...) Estafania Aldaba-Lim, a former minister of social welfare who has studied the Pagsanjan situation, said local residents discovered the easy money in male prostitution when American filmmakers came to town to shoot scenes for &quot;Apocalypse Now.&quot; &quot;I suppose some gays with the crew fell in love with the young macho boatmen,'&quot; she said, &quot;and then it went to much younger boys, down to 9, 10, 11 years old, and the whole town got in on it.&quot; (...) But, Miss Zaide said child prostitution continues. One Swiss national, she said, married the sister of his 15-year-old male lover and has applied to return home not with his wife but with his new brother-in-law. &quot;The family is proud of it,&quot; Miss Zaide said. It flaunts his gifts, which include one of the better residences in town. '''At school, according to another member of Miss Zaide's group, children proudly display the new clothes, pocket money and other gifts that they receive from their patrons, tempting other children to follow their example.''' [emphasis ours] One Third of Boys Are Involved. Miss Zaide estimated that one-third of the youngsters have taken part in the sex trade in this town of 22,000, where 65 percent of the population is below the age of 18. When teachers confront the parents of these children, she said, the parents ask them, &quot;What can you give us in exchange? Can you pay for my child's schooling? Can you give him an allowance? Can you build a home for us?&quot;&quot;<br /> <br /> *'''&quot;Neil&quot; In Birkett, D. ''[http://www.deabirkett.com/pages/journalism_film/film/monsters_with_human_faces.htm The Devil Amongst Us - accompanying article]'', 1997.'''<br /> <br /> :*&quot;During my research I met Neil, a gay man now aged 40, who enjoyed having sex with adult men from the age of nine. &quot;It seems to be politically correct, even within the gay movement, to be anti-paedophile. But when I ask gay male friends when they first had sex they say, 'Oh, ten, 11, 12, with a bloke down the road who was 22.' He was probably a paedophile!&quot;&quot;<br /> <br /> [[Category:Official Encyclopedia]][[Category:Testimony]][[Category:Testimony: Contact]]<br /> <br /> [[fr:Témoignages: Adulte mâle avec mineur mâle]]</div>

StephenJames http://newgon77idcem62vqlfge3jkidjenvf6afhxwr2napk4kpp2labjbdid.onion/wiki/index.php?title=John_Holt&diff=5862 2009-09-12T01:29:58Z

<p>StephenJames: </p> <hr /> <div>[[Image:JohnHolt.jpg|frame|John Caldwell Holt]]The educator and Home-schooling champion, '''John Caldwell Holt''' (April 14, 1923 - September 14, 1985) is of interest because of the radical youth rights literature that he published. (See his book ''Escape from Childhood – The Needs and Rights of Children''.)<br /> <br /> Holt advocated that “all people, including young people, should have the right to control their own private sex lives and acts”. He considers that “it is not the proper business of the state or government to pry into such matters”. While defending the thesis that children should be given the same rights and citizenship as adults, he observes that until this happens, and unless children are legally emancipated, parents should at least be able to forbid their children to have sex at (their) home.<br /> <br /> ==Quotes==<br /> <br /> Holt refutes the concept of childhood innocence:<br /> <br /> :“Many of us (…) still believe and need to believe that children are ‘innocent’ and ‘pure’, that is, asexual, untainted by sexual thoughts, feelings or urges. There is increasing evidence that this is not true even of very young children, and it is certainly not true of children much past the age of ten or eleven.&quot;<br /> <br /> :&quot;No one is more truly helpless, more completely a victim, than he who can neither choose nor change nor escape his protectors.&quot;<br /> <br /> He sees laws on age of consent as unfair and morally wrong, and firmly opposes them:<br /> <br /> :“For the state to deprive someone of liberty by putting him in prison is a most serious act. (…) It can only be justified by the most weighty cause, that the prisoner did real harm to others. But to make the act of sex, the mutual giving and receiving of pleasure, the excuse for putting someone in prison seems both mistaken and morally wrong”.<br /> <br /> ==External links==<br /> <br /> *[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Caldwell_Holt Wikipedia Article]<br /> <br /> [[Category:Official Encyclopedia]][[Category:People]][[Category:Research]][[Category:Research: Broader Perspectives]][[Category:People: American]][[Category:People: Sympathetic Activists]][[Category:People: Deceased]][[Category:People: Academics]][[Category:People: Critical Analysts]]</div>

StephenJames http://newgon77idcem62vqlfge3jkidjenvf6afhxwr2napk4kpp2labjbdid.onion/wiki/index.php?title=Frits_Bernard&diff=5861 2009-09-12T01:23:17Z

<p>StephenJames: /* Further background */</p> <hr /> <div>[[Image:FritsBernard.jpg|thumb|Frits Bernard]]'''Frits Bernard''' (August 28, 1920 in Rotterdam&lt;ref name=&quot;ok&quot;&gt;Uittenbogaard, Marthijn (2005) [http://www.martijn.org/info/OK92_1.html Een gesprek met Dr. Frits Bernard - man van het eerste uur] (&quot;A long interview with Dr Frits Bernard&quot;), [[MARTIJN|OK magazine]], 92.&lt;/ref&gt; – May 23, 2006&lt;ref&gt;[http://www.martijn.org/info/OK92_EN_1.html ''A Conversation With Dr Frits Bernard – Pioneer''], Vereniging MARTIJN, May 2006.&lt;/ref&gt;) was a [[Netherlands|Dutch]] [[psychology|psychologist]], [[sexology|sexologist]], [[LGBT social movements|homosexual activist]], and campaigner for more liberal attitudes and laws on [[Adult-child sex|minor-adult sexual relationships]]. Bernard founded the ''Enklave kring'', which led to the International Enclave Movement, in the late 1950s&lt;ref name=&quot;dutch&quot;&gt;{{cite journal|url=http://www.ipce.info/ipceweb/Library/dutch_movement_text.htm|title=The Dutch Paedophile Emancipation Movement|author=Dr. Frits Bernard|journal=Paidika: The Journal of Paedophilia|volume=1|issue=2|year=Autumn 1987|pages=35&amp;ndash;45}}&lt;/ref&gt;, and has been described as a founder of the entire pro-pedophilia movement.&lt;ref name=&quot;ok&quot; /&gt; He was also an author, a member of the Association for the Advancement of Social Scientific Sex Research's board of directors&lt;ref name=&quot;dutch&quot; /&gt;, and founder of the [[Bernard Foundation]].&lt;ref&gt;C. C. (2004). [http://www.martijn.org/page.php?id=206074 Concealed partiality in the 'quality press'], OK magazine, 74.&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> At seven, Bernard moved to [[Spain]] to attend the Internationale Duitse School in Barcelona. He returned to the Netherlands during World War II, studying at the Universiteit van Amsterdam and the Catholic University of Nijmegen.&lt;ref&gt;[http://216.220.97.17/bernard.htm In Memoriam: Frits Bernard, 1920 - 2006], NAMBLA.&lt;/ref&gt; In the late 1950s, Bernard joined the [[COC]], a Dutch [[LGBT]] organization. He argued in favor of [[pedophilia]] in the COC's publication, ''Vriendschap'', using the pseudonym &quot;Victor Servatius.&quot;&lt;ref name=&quot;ok&quot; /&gt; He became active in the [[Dutch Society for Sexual Reform]] around 1970.<br /> <br /> ==Further background==<br /> <br /> ''See [http://www.williamapercy.com/wiki/index.php?title=Frits_Bernard WilliamPercy.com]''<br /> <br /> [[Image:Frits.jpg|thumb|left|The young Bernard]]Initially Dr. Bernard and Dr. Edward Brongersma, the other 'big name' in Dutch pederast and pedophile activism, had worked together in the COC, and both had important essays in the pioneering Dutch collection seeking understanding for intergenerational relationships, ''Sex met kinderen'', in 1972. In 1975 the two men broke with one another – officially over Brongersma's attacks on Bernard's book ''Pedofilie'', the report on Bernard's psychological research on a sample of pedophiles largely drawn from the workgroups. This work was subsequently expanded and translated into German as ''Pädophilie. Liebe mit Kinderen'', 1979, further revised as ''Kinderschänder?'', 1982, and, in abridged form, translated into English as ''Paedophilia: A Factual Report'', 1985. This same material provided the basis for literally hundreds of articles (his 1992 bibliography runs to 34 pages) which Bernard had published and translated into dozens of languages, as far afield as Japan, but particularly in Germany, where he was an active figure in the Arbeitsgemeinschaft Humane Sexualität (AHS). The feud between the two 'giants' simmered on for years, with Bernard, writing under another pseudonym, “dr Ernst Otto Born”, sniping at Brongersma's subsequent work.<br /> <br /> Bernard's activism for pedophilia and pederasty was not limited to scientific work, or to organizing, but also included two novels, which he wrote during the 1950s. The first, ''Costa Brava'', portrays the relationship between the novel's narrator and a twelve-year-old refugee boy during the Spanish Civil War, and the second, ''Vervolgde Minderheid'' (''Persecuted Minority''), the relationship between an adult and a high school student in Amsterdam after the Second World War. Both were self-published under his pseudonym of Victor Servatius in 1960, followed by a second Dutch edition in 1984 under his own name, and translations into German (1979 and 1980, respectively), French (1989 and 1992, respectively) and English (1982 (in Gay Sunshine Journal) and 1988, and 1989, respectively). Although the relationship in the former is disrupted by the boy's family falsely telling the man that the boy has died, after he succeeds in reuniting the boy with his family, it ends with a bittersweet chance encounter years later when they can affirm their love for each other; ''Persecuted Minority'' ends less happily, with the man's imprisonment for their relationship, and his commitment to emigrate and escape the hostile atmosphere of The Netherlands – an atmosphere that, while it may have softened for a few years in the 1970s, Dr. Bernard lived to see re-emerge with incredible vengeance in the 1990s.<br /> <br /> ==References==<br /> {{Reflist}}<br /> <br /> [[Category:Official Encyclopedia]][[Category:Gay]][[Category:Sociological Theory]][[Category:Research]][[Category:Research on Minor Attraction]][[Category:Research on &quot;Child Molesters&quot;]][[Category:Research into effects on Children]][[Category:Research: Broader Perspectives]][[Category:People]][[Category:People: Dutch]][[Category:People: Deceased]][[Category:People: Academics]][[Category:People: Critical Analysts]][[Category:People: Sympathetic Activists]][[Category:People: Popular Authors]]</div>

StephenJames http://newgon77idcem62vqlfge3jkidjenvf6afhxwr2napk4kpp2labjbdid.onion/wiki/index.php?title=Diederik_Janssen&diff=5850 2009-09-09T03:11:41Z

<p>StephenJames: </p> <hr /> <div>[[Image:Janssen0.jpg|frame|Diederik Janssen, MD]]'''Diederik Janssen, MD''' is a young (MD in 2001) critical analyst known not for his writings on medicine, but instead, anthropology and young masculinities. Janssen has compiled a [[Growing Up Sexually|large database]] of anthropological knowledge on the sexual upbringing of children in various cultures across the world.<br /> <br /> A former student at Radboud University, Nijmegen, Janssen is also credited as a (founding) editor of a number of journals on masculinity, including ''[[Thymos: Journal of Boyhood Studies]]'', which contains occasional commentary on boyhood sexualities.<br /> <br /> ==External links==<br /> <br /> *[http://www.boyhoodstudies.com/dj.pdf CV, Biblio], including other works on masculinity<br /> *[http://www.boyhoodstudies.com/thymos.htm Thymos] - Journal currently managed by Janssen<br /> *[http://www2.hu-berlin.de/sexology/GESUND/ARCHIV/GUS/INDEXATLAS.HTM GUS]<br /> <br /> [[Category:Official Encyclopedia]][[Category:Sociological Theory]][[Category:Youth]][[Category:Research]][[Category:Research: Broader Perspectives]][[Category:People]][[Category:People: Dutch]][[Category:People: Academics]][[Category:People: Critical Analysts]]</div>

StephenJames http://newgon77idcem62vqlfge3jkidjenvf6afhxwr2napk4kpp2labjbdid.onion/wiki/index.php?title=Gerald_Hannon&diff=5748 2009-08-30T04:40:08Z

<p>StephenJames: Tidied up</p> <hr /> <div>According to [http://andrejkoymasky.com/liv/fam/bioh1/hann4.html Koymasky]:<br /> <br /> [[Image:Hannon.png|thumb|Gerald Hannon, 2006]]<br /> :'''Hannon''' was born in a small New Brunswick town and raised in small town Ontario, moving to Toronto for his university studies. At the end of 1971, he joined the editorial group that produced the fledgling gay liberation magazine ''The Body Politic'', and for most of its fifteen-year life, he was one of its most prolific and controversial writers. <br /> <br /> :In late 1977, his article in the magazine entitled 'Men Loving Boys Loving Boys' brought a police raid and obscenity charges against him and others of the magazine's editorial collective, and considerable criticism (as well as support) from the gay community itself. The legal battle (and accompanying political campaign) was waged for several years, eventually yielding acquittal. <br /> <br /> :After The Body Politic's demise in early 1987, Hannon continued writing freelance. His writing has won him two National Magazine awards and several other nominations. Success also helped secure part-time teaching in journalism at Toronto's Ryerson Polytechnical University, though media-inflamed publicity about his 'Men Loving Boys' article, and about his part-time job as a prostitute, led to an ill-thought-out suspension from the university, and eventually to an undisclosed settlement.<br /> <br /> ==Condemned article==<br /> <br /> [[Men loving boys loving men]]<br /> <br /> [[Category:Official Encyclopedia]][[Category:People]][[Category:People: Sympathetic Activists]][[Category:People: Sympathetic Activists]][[Category:Gay]][[Category:People: Canadian]]</div>

StephenJames http://newgon77idcem62vqlfge3jkidjenvf6afhxwr2napk4kpp2labjbdid.onion/wiki/index.php?title=Richard_Yuill&diff=5673 2009-08-25T02:42:45Z

<p>StephenJames: /* Other major works */</p> <hr /> <div>&lt;div style=&quot;margin-left: 25px; float: right;&quot;&gt;__TOC__&lt;/div&gt;'''Dr Richard Yuill''', who was awarded his PhD in Sociology from Glasgow University in December 2004 is a [[Michel Foucault|Foucauldian]] researcher and critical analyst known for his work on [[Queer Theory]] and [[Intergenerational Sex]]ualities.<br /> <br /> ==PhD thesis==<br /> <br /> Due to Yuill's legal agreement with the University of Glasgow, his highly controversial thesis will not be published until December 2009. For this work, he gained high distinction from examiners and colleagues alike, but was nevertheless defamed in the reactionary media.<br /> <br /> ===Sexual politics===<br /> <br /> Yuill's thesis tackles the range of contested positions on man-boy love from a sociological perspective. He applies both materialist and Foucauldian frameworks on late modern sexualities to the related subjects of childhood, adolescence and adult sexual attraction to children and young people. Yuill critiques both mainstream gay and &quot;radical&quot; feminist analyses on intergenerational sexualities for their reductionist and simplistic adoption of problematic and largely discredited &quot;child sexual abuse&quot; (CSA) assumptions on power, subjectivity and outcomes in such relationships. His approach provides a number of profound policy and theoretical insights on child, youth, and intergenerational sexual rights, coupled with a thoroughly comprehensive analysis of the likely direction future transformations towards wider forms of sexual citizenship and child empowerment will take.<br /> <br /> ===Controversy===<br /> <br /> Throughout the five years from 2000 to 2005, he faced two lengthy University Senate investigations, thefts of material from his office, a series of hysterical attacks from the [[Daily Mail]], Guardian, News of the World, and the freelance journalist [[Marcello Mega]]. The Scottish Mail on Sunday and the Scottish edition of the News of the World tabloid published articles slating him. Yuill and Glasgow University decided to place the work on a 5-year access ban. A series of ad hominem political attacks and sensationalist media reporting by the Times Higher Education Supplement subsequently followed, with Liz Kelly, Chris Harrison, and Rachel O'Connell co-opting to provide negative and distorted commentaries on the PhD, despite having not even read it.<br /> <br /> Radical Christian websites turned up the heat by describing Yuill as a &quot;moral cretin&quot;.<br /> <br /> ====[[Marcello Mega]]====<br /> <br /> In 2004, Yuill was attacked and libelled following an undercover investigation carried out by [[Ireen van Engelen]]. Van Engelen passed information on to the Scottish Daily Mail journalist Marcello Mega. Despite eventually failing to uncover highly sensitive information, Mega has since embarked on a campaign to discredit Yuill by referring to the fact that he once joined and visited [[Ipce]] for research purposes, as encouraged by said organisation. Mega also alleges that Yuill described himself as a &quot;boylover&quot; to Ipce members, a charge that if correct was likely to have been part of a standard naturalisation technique used by social researchers. The integrity of this accusation and what Mega infers from it is further called into question by his more recent comment that Yuill was discharged from teaching for &quot;inappropriate sexual ‘horseplay’ with boys in his care&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.holyrood.com/content/view/2544/10524/&lt;/ref&gt;. This defamatory accusation had previously led to a successful PCC report.&lt;ref&gt;http://www.pcc.org.uk/news/index.html?article=MzkxOA==&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ==Other major works==<br /> <br /> Despite censorship of his work from Sociological Research Online, Sexualities, and Sociological Review, Yuill has published two Encyclopedia articles in “The Blackwell Encyclopedia of Sociology” in 2007, and Greenwood’s “Love, Courtship and Sexuality through history, Volume 6” in 2008. He has also published a critical commentary of Diederik Janssen's &quot;Re-Queering queer youth development: A Post-Developmental Approach to Childhood and Pedagogy&quot; entitled &quot;Re-scheduling child sexual trajectories” in the Journal of LGBT Youth, 2008, 5(3). Written with [[Dean Durber]], &quot;‘Querying’ the Limits of Queering Boys Through the Contested Discourses on Sexuality&quot; was recently published in [[Sexuality &amp; Culture]]. At present, Yuill is working on a book proposal and further journal articles.<br /> <br /> ==References==<br /> <br /> {{reflist}}<br /> <br /> ==External links==<br /> <br /> *[http://www.williamapercy.com/wiki/index.php?title=Abstract Yuill PhD Abstract]<br /> *[http://www.williamapercy.com/wiki/index.php?title=Bibliography Yuill PhD Biblio]<br /> <br /> [[Category:Official Encyclopedia]][[Category:Censorship]][[Category:Gay]][[Category:Sociological Theory]][[Category:Hysteria]][[Category:Youth]][[Category:Research]][[Category:Research on &quot;Child Molesters&quot;]][[Category:Research into effects on Children]][[Category:Research: Broader Perspectives]][[Category:People]][[Category:People: British]][[Category:People: Academics]][[Category:People: Critical Analysts]][[Category:History &amp; Events: Personal Scandals]][[Category:History &amp; Events]][[Category:History &amp; Events: British]][[Category:History &amp; Events: 2000s]]</div>

StephenJames http://newgon77idcem62vqlfge3jkidjenvf6afhxwr2napk4kpp2labjbdid.onion/wiki/index.php?title=Richard_Yuill&diff=5672 2009-08-25T02:40:57Z

<p>StephenJames: /* Marcello Mega */</p> <hr /> <div>&lt;div style=&quot;margin-left: 25px; float: right;&quot;&gt;__TOC__&lt;/div&gt;'''Dr Richard Yuill''', who was awarded his PhD in Sociology from Glasgow University in December 2004 is a [[Michel Foucault|Foucauldian]] researcher and critical analyst known for his work on [[Queer Theory]] and [[Intergenerational Sex]]ualities.<br /> <br /> ==PhD thesis==<br /> <br /> Due to Yuill's legal agreement with the University of Glasgow, his highly controversial thesis will not be published until December 2009. For this work, he gained high distinction from examiners and colleagues alike, but was nevertheless defamed in the reactionary media.<br /> <br /> ===Sexual politics===<br /> <br /> Yuill's thesis tackles the range of contested positions on man-boy love from a sociological perspective. He applies both materialist and Foucauldian frameworks on late modern sexualities to the related subjects of childhood, adolescence and adult sexual attraction to children and young people. Yuill critiques both mainstream gay and &quot;radical&quot; feminist analyses on intergenerational sexualities for their reductionist and simplistic adoption of problematic and largely discredited &quot;child sexual abuse&quot; (CSA) assumptions on power, subjectivity and outcomes in such relationships. His approach provides a number of profound policy and theoretical insights on child, youth, and intergenerational sexual rights, coupled with a thoroughly comprehensive analysis of the likely direction future transformations towards wider forms of sexual citizenship and child empowerment will take.<br /> <br /> ===Controversy===<br /> <br /> Throughout the five years from 2000 to 2005, he faced two lengthy University Senate investigations, thefts of material from his office, a series of hysterical attacks from the [[Daily Mail]], Guardian, News of the World, and the freelance journalist [[Marcello Mega]]. The Scottish Mail on Sunday and the Scottish edition of the News of the World tabloid published articles slating him. Yuill and Glasgow University decided to place the work on a 5-year access ban. A series of ad hominem political attacks and sensationalist media reporting by the Times Higher Education Supplement subsequently followed, with Liz Kelly, Chris Harrison, and Rachel O'Connell co-opting to provide negative and distorted commentaries on the PhD, despite having not even read it.<br /> <br /> Radical Christian websites turned up the heat by describing Yuill as a &quot;moral cretin&quot;.<br /> <br /> ====[[Marcello Mega]]====<br /> <br /> In 2004, Yuill was attacked and libelled following an undercover investigation carried out by [[Ireen van Engelen]]. Van Engelen passed information on to the Scottish Daily Mail journalist Marcello Mega. Despite eventually failing to uncover highly sensitive information, Mega has since embarked on a campaign to discredit Yuill by referring to the fact that he once joined and visited [[Ipce]] for research purposes, as encouraged by said organisation. Mega also alleges that Yuill described himself as a &quot;boylover&quot; to Ipce members, a charge that if correct was likely to have been part of a standard naturalisation technique used by social researchers. The integrity of this accusation and what Mega infers from it is further called into question by his more recent comment that Yuill was discharged from teaching for &quot;inappropriate sexual ‘horseplay’ with boys in his care&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.holyrood.com/content/view/2544/10524/&lt;/ref&gt;. This defamatory accusation had previously led to a successful PCC report.&lt;ref&gt;http://www.pcc.org.uk/news/index.html?article=MzkxOA==&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ==Other major works==<br /> <br /> Despite censorship of his work from Sociological Research Online, Sexualities, and Sociological Review, Yuill has published two Encyclopedia articles in “The Blackwell Encyclopedia of Sociology” in 2007, and Greenwood’s “Love, Courtship and Sexuality through history, Volume 6” in 2008. He also has published a critical commentary of Diederik Janssen's &quot;Re-Queering queer youth development: A Post-Developmental Approach to Childhood and Pedagogy&quot; entitled &quot;Re-scheduling child sexual trajectories” in the Journal of LGBT Youth, 2008, 5(3). Written with [[Dean Durber]], &quot;‘Querying’ the Limits of Queering Boys Through the Contested Discourses on Sexuality&quot; was recently published in [[Sexuality &amp; Culture]]. At present, Yuill is working on a book proposal and further journal articles.<br /> <br /> ==References==<br /> <br /> {{reflist}}<br /> <br /> ==External links==<br /> <br /> *[http://www.williamapercy.com/wiki/index.php?title=Abstract Yuill PhD Abstract]<br /> *[http://www.williamapercy.com/wiki/index.php?title=Bibliography Yuill PhD Biblio]<br /> <br /> [[Category:Official Encyclopedia]][[Category:Censorship]][[Category:Gay]][[Category:Sociological Theory]][[Category:Hysteria]][[Category:Youth]][[Category:Research]][[Category:Research on &quot;Child Molesters&quot;]][[Category:Research into effects on Children]][[Category:Research: Broader Perspectives]][[Category:People]][[Category:People: British]][[Category:People: Academics]][[Category:People: Critical Analysts]][[Category:History &amp; Events: Personal Scandals]][[Category:History &amp; Events]][[Category:History &amp; Events: British]][[Category:History &amp; Events: 2000s]]</div>

StephenJames http://newgon77idcem62vqlfge3jkidjenvf6afhxwr2napk4kpp2labjbdid.onion/wiki/index.php?title=Richard_Yuill&diff=5671 2009-08-25T02:39:07Z

<p>StephenJames: /* Controversy */</p> <hr /> <div>&lt;div style=&quot;margin-left: 25px; float: right;&quot;&gt;__TOC__&lt;/div&gt;'''Dr Richard Yuill''', who was awarded his PhD in Sociology from Glasgow University in December 2004 is a [[Michel Foucault|Foucauldian]] researcher and critical analyst known for his work on [[Queer Theory]] and [[Intergenerational Sex]]ualities.<br /> <br /> ==PhD thesis==<br /> <br /> Due to Yuill's legal agreement with the University of Glasgow, his highly controversial thesis will not be published until December 2009. For this work, he gained high distinction from examiners and colleagues alike, but was nevertheless defamed in the reactionary media.<br /> <br /> ===Sexual politics===<br /> <br /> Yuill's thesis tackles the range of contested positions on man-boy love from a sociological perspective. He applies both materialist and Foucauldian frameworks on late modern sexualities to the related subjects of childhood, adolescence and adult sexual attraction to children and young people. Yuill critiques both mainstream gay and &quot;radical&quot; feminist analyses on intergenerational sexualities for their reductionist and simplistic adoption of problematic and largely discredited &quot;child sexual abuse&quot; (CSA) assumptions on power, subjectivity and outcomes in such relationships. His approach provides a number of profound policy and theoretical insights on child, youth, and intergenerational sexual rights, coupled with a thoroughly comprehensive analysis of the likely direction future transformations towards wider forms of sexual citizenship and child empowerment will take.<br /> <br /> ===Controversy===<br /> <br /> Throughout the five years from 2000 to 2005, he faced two lengthy University Senate investigations, thefts of material from his office, a series of hysterical attacks from the [[Daily Mail]], Guardian, News of the World, and the freelance journalist [[Marcello Mega]]. The Scottish Mail on Sunday and the Scottish edition of the News of the World tabloid published articles slating him. Yuill and Glasgow University decided to place the work on a 5-year access ban. A series of ad hominem political attacks and sensationalist media reporting by the Times Higher Education Supplement subsequently followed, with Liz Kelly, Chris Harrison, and Rachel O'Connell co-opting to provide negative and distorted commentaries on the PhD, despite having not even read it.<br /> <br /> Radical Christian websites turned up the heat by describing Yuill as a &quot;moral cretin&quot;.<br /> <br /> ====[[Marcello Mega]]====<br /> <br /> In 2004, Yuill was attacked and libelled following an undercover investigation carried out by [[Ireen van Engelen]]. Van Engelen passed information on to the Scottish Daily Mail journalist Marcello Mega. Despite eventually failing to uncover highly sensitive information, Mega has since embarked on a campaign to discredit Yuill by referring to the fact that he once joined and visited [[Ipce]] for research purposes, as encouraged by said organisation. Mega also alleges that Yuill described himself as a &quot;boylover&quot; to Ipce members, a charge that if correct was likely to have been part of a standard naturalisation technique used by social researchers. The integrity of this accusation and what Mega infers from it is further called into question by his more recent comment that Yuill was discharged from teaching for &quot;inappropriate sexual ‘horseplay’ with boys in his care&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.holyrood.com/content/view/2544/10524/&lt;/ref&gt;. This defamatory accusation had previously lead to a successful PCC report.&lt;ref&gt;http://www.pcc.org.uk/news/index.html?article=MzkxOA==&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ==Other major works==<br /> <br /> Despite censorship of his work from Sociological Research Online, Sexualities, and Sociological Review, Yuill has published two Encyclopedia articles in “The Blackwell Encyclopedia of Sociology” in 2007, and Greenwood’s “Love, Courtship and Sexuality through history, Volume 6” in 2008. He also has published a critical commentary of Diederik Janssen's &quot;Re-Queering queer youth development: A Post-Developmental Approach to Childhood and Pedagogy&quot; entitled &quot;Re-scheduling child sexual trajectories” in the Journal of LGBT Youth, 2008, 5(3). Written with [[Dean Durber]], &quot;‘Querying’ the Limits of Queering Boys Through the Contested Discourses on Sexuality&quot; was recently published in [[Sexuality &amp; Culture]]. At present, Yuill is working on a book proposal and further journal articles.<br /> <br /> ==References==<br /> <br /> {{reflist}}<br /> <br /> ==External links==<br /> <br /> *[http://www.williamapercy.com/wiki/index.php?title=Abstract Yuill PhD Abstract]<br /> *[http://www.williamapercy.com/wiki/index.php?title=Bibliography Yuill PhD Biblio]<br /> <br /> [[Category:Official Encyclopedia]][[Category:Censorship]][[Category:Gay]][[Category:Sociological Theory]][[Category:Hysteria]][[Category:Youth]][[Category:Research]][[Category:Research on &quot;Child Molesters&quot;]][[Category:Research into effects on Children]][[Category:Research: Broader Perspectives]][[Category:People]][[Category:People: British]][[Category:People: Academics]][[Category:People: Critical Analysts]][[Category:History &amp; Events: Personal Scandals]][[Category:History &amp; Events]][[Category:History &amp; Events: British]][[Category:History &amp; Events: 2000s]]</div>

StephenJames http://newgon77idcem62vqlfge3jkidjenvf6afhxwr2napk4kpp2labjbdid.onion/wiki/index.php?title=Harriet_Harman&diff=5669 2009-08-24T19:14:47Z

<p>StephenJames: /* NCCL/Liberty */</p> <hr /> <div>[[Image:Harma.jpg|frame|Harman]]'''Harriet Ruth Harman QC MP''' (born 30 July 1950) is a British solicitor and Labour politician who in her earlier years with [[Liberty]], argued for more liberal legislation on [[child pornography]], but eventually became a [[New Labour]] party line supporter and anti-prostitution campaigner.<br /> <br /> ==Current Standing (March, 2009)==<br /> <br /> :[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harriet_Harman Wikipedia]<br /> <br /> :&quot;''On 28 June 2007 she was appointed Leader of the House of Commons, Lord Privy Seal and Minister for Women and Equality. On 12 October 2007 she became head of a new UK Government Department, the Government Equalities Office, made up of staff transferred from the already existing Women and Equality unit. She still however retains her title of Minister for Women, bringing her total number of jobs to five.''<br /> <br /> :''Harman's strong [[feminism|feminist]] views and policies have reportedly made her unpopular with some Labour MPs, and have earned her the moniker Harriet Harperson. She has been the Member of Parliament (MP) for Camberwell and Peckham since 1997, having previously been MP for Peckham since 1982.''&quot;<br /> <br /> ==NCCL/Liberty==<br /> <br /> Between 1978 and 1982 Harman was legal officer for the [[National Council for Civil Liberties]] (now ''Liberty''), an organisation that supported reducing the [[Age of Consent]] to 14 - rejecting abolition only because of public opinion.<br /> <br /> :''At the time she made the official submission, she was a senior figure in a civil liberties organisation that wanted the age of consent to be lowered to 14 and incest decriminalised. It also defended self-confessed paedophiles in the press and allowed them to attend its meetings. (...) Miss Harman, 58, was a newly qualified solicitor when she became legal officer for the National Council for Civil Liberties, now known as Liberty, in 1978. At the time its general secretary was Patricia Hewitt, who went on to become health secretary under Tony Blair. Among the groups affiliated to NCCL were the Paedophile Information Exchange and Paedophile Action for Liberation, whose members argued openly for the abolition of the age of consent. NCCL complained to the press watchdog about their treatment by tabloid newspapers and said in one article: “We support any organisation that seeks to campaign for anything it wants within the law. They have that right.” In NCCL’s official response to the Government’s plans to reform sex laws, dubbed a “Lolita’s Charter”, it suggested reducing the age of consent and argued that “childhood sexual experiences, willingly engaged in, with an adult result in no identifiable damage”. It claimed that children can suffer more from having to retell their experiences in court or the press. Amid growing public concern about adults preying on children, the Protection of Children Bill was put before Parliament in order to tighten the laws on child pornography by banning indecent images of under-16s. NCCL’s official response, signed by Miss Harman and submitted in April 1978, claimed that the new law could lead to “damaging and absurd prosecutions” and “increase censorship”. She suggested that a pornographic photo or film of a child should not be considered indecent unless it could be shown that the subject had suffered, and that prosecutors would have to prove harm rather than defendants having to justify themselves. Her submission states: “Although this harm may be of a somewhat speculative nature, where participation falls short of physical assault, it is none-the-less justifiable to restrain activities by photographer which involve placing children under the age of 14 (or, arguably, 16) in sexual situations.&quot;''[http://newgon.com/redir.php?http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/labour/4949555/Harriet-Harman-under-attack-over-bid-to-water-down-child-pornography-law.html]<br /> <br /> ==External link==<br /> <br /> *[http://www.harrietharman.org/ Her official site]<br /> *[http://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/harriet_harman/camberwell_and_peckham Voting record]<br /> <br /> [[Category:Official Encyclopedia]][[Category:Prostitution]][[Category:Child Pornography]][[Category:People]][[Category:People: British]][[Category:People: Fence-Sitting Activists]]</div>

StephenJames http://newgon77idcem62vqlfge3jkidjenvf6afhxwr2napk4kpp2labjbdid.onion/wiki/index.php?title=Harriet_Harman&diff=5668 2009-08-24T19:13:58Z

<p>StephenJames: /* NCCL/Liberty */</p> <hr /> <div>[[Image:Harma.jpg|frame|Harman]]'''Harriet Ruth Harman QC MP''' (born 30 July 1950) is a British solicitor and Labour politician who in her earlier years with [[Liberty]], argued for more liberal legislation on [[child pornography]], but eventually became a [[New Labour]] party line supporter and anti-prostitution campaigner.<br /> <br /> ==Current Standing (March, 2009)==<br /> <br /> :[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harriet_Harman Wikipedia]<br /> <br /> :&quot;''On 28 June 2007 she was appointed Leader of the House of Commons, Lord Privy Seal and Minister for Women and Equality. On 12 October 2007 she became head of a new UK Government Department, the Government Equalities Office, made up of staff transferred from the already existing Women and Equality unit. She still however retains her title of Minister for Women, bringing her total number of jobs to five.''<br /> <br /> :''Harman's strong [[feminism|feminist]] views and policies have reportedly made her unpopular with some Labour MPs, and have earned her the moniker Harriet Harperson. She has been the Member of Parliament (MP) for Camberwell and Peckham since 1997, having previously been MP for Peckham since 1982.''&quot;<br /> <br /> ==NCCL/Liberty==<br /> <br /> Between 1978 and 1982 Harman was legal officer for the [[National Council for Civil Liberties]] (now ''Liberty''), an organisation that supported reducing the [[Age of Consent]] to 14 - rejecting abolition only because of public opinion.<br /> <br /> :''&quot;At the time she made the official submission, she was a senior figure in a civil liberties organisation that wanted the age of consent to be lowered to 14 and incest decriminalised. It also defended self-confessed paedophiles in the press and allowed them to attend its meetings. (...) Miss Harman, 58, was a newly qualified solicitor when she became legal officer for the National Council for Civil Liberties, now known as Liberty, in 1978. At the time its general secretary was Patricia Hewitt, who went on to become health secretary under Tony Blair. Among the groups affiliated to NCCL were the Paedophile Information Exchange and Paedophile Action for Liberation, whose members argued openly for the abolition of the age of consent. NCCL complained to the press watchdog about their treatment by tabloid newspapers and said in one article: “We support any organisation that seeks to campaign for anything it wants within the law. They have that right.” In NCCL’s official response to the Government’s plans to reform sex laws, dubbed a “Lolita’s Charter”, it suggested reducing the age of consent and argued that “childhood sexual experiences, willingly engaged in, with an adult result in no identifiable damage”. It claimed that children can suffer more from having to retell their experiences in court or the press. Amid growing public concern about adults preying on children, the Protection of Children Bill was put before Parliament in order to tighten the laws on child pornography by banning indecent images of under-16s. NCCL’s official response, signed by Miss Harman and submitted in April 1978, claimed that the new law could lead to “damaging and absurd prosecutions” and “increase censorship”. She suggested that a pornographic photo or film of a child should not be considered indecent unless it could be shown that the subject had suffered, and that prosecutors would have to prove harm rather than defendants having to justify themselves. Her submission states: “Although this harm may be of a somewhat speculative nature, where participation falls short of physical assault, it is none-the-less justifiable to restrain activities by photographer which involve placing children under the age of 14 (or, arguably, 16) in sexual situations.&quot;&quot;''[http://newgon.com/redir.php?http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/labour/4949555/Harriet-Harman-under-attack-over-bid-to-water-down-child-pornography-law.html]<br /> <br /> ==External link==<br /> <br /> *[http://www.harrietharman.org/ Her official site]<br /> *[http://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/harriet_harman/camberwell_and_peckham Voting record]<br /> <br /> [[Category:Official Encyclopedia]][[Category:Prostitution]][[Category:Child Pornography]][[Category:People]][[Category:People: British]][[Category:People: Fence-Sitting Activists]]</div>

StephenJames http://newgon77idcem62vqlfge3jkidjenvf6afhxwr2napk4kpp2labjbdid.onion/wiki/index.php?title=Carol_Vorderman&diff=5656 2009-08-24T03:16:26Z

<p>StephenJames: /* Unethical publicity */</p> <hr /> <div>[[Image:Vorderman.JPG|frame|Vorderman]]'''Carol Vorderman''' MBE, (born 24 December 1960, Bedford, [[UK]]) known mainly for her television work, has sought to further her career by pursuing an anti-[[Pedophile]] agenda, based mainly on internet scaremongering and support for policies that isolate and restrict young people.<br /> <br /> ==Unethical publicity==<br /> <br /> Vorderman's frequent outbursts against pedophiles need to be viewed in context. For example, she is already known to endorse a [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt_consolidation debt consolidation]firm.<br /> <br /> ==Outbursts against pedophiles since 2001==<br /> <br /> In 2001, Vorderman agreed to publicise a campaign by the [[NSPCC]], also showing disgust that a convicted sex offender should be allowed to participate in a game show that she hosted:<br /> <br /> :&quot;The bosses refused to broadcast it and quite rightly so. That programme should not have been shown.&quot;[http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1467116.stm]<br /> <br /> A series of &quot;vitriolic&quot; attacks documented by sycophant ZDNet News in 2001 is particularly revealing:<br /> <br /> :&quot;Pulling no punches, the broadcaster, who recently teamed up with [[Trevor McDonald]] to highlight the dangers of chatrooms, attacked the government's plan to give schoolchildren their own email address. &quot;This is utterly incomprehensible,&quot; she said. &quot;It is an open invitation for paedophiles to track children at school.&quot; [...] Vorderman has become a campaigner against online paedophiles since making a documentary about the issue last year for the ITV show Tonight with Trevor McDonald. The issue of child pornography on the Internet has long haunted the industry.&quot;[http://news.zdnet.co.uk/internet/0,1000000097,2083905,00.htm]<br /> <br /> It is not surprising to find that Vorderman is also in support of prison sentences similar in length to those used against internet offenders in [[America]]:<br /> <br /> :&quot;A MAN who used the internet to lure a girl of 13 to his home for sex could be out of jail in five months after judges halved his five-year sentence. [...] The broadcaster Carol Vorderman, who has exposed the ease with which paedophiles can find victims in uncontrolled internet chat rooms, said: &quot;It is an absolute disgrace. Five years wasn't enough in the first place.&quot;&quot;<br /> <br /> Similarly, Vorderman came out in support of the [[News of the World]]'s campaign for a [[Sarah's Law]] which would expand disclosure of information about sex offenders:<br /> <br /> :&quot;The world of sex offenders is such a disturbing area. There is no logic with these paedophiles, its an obsession and they cannot be cured. They commit such horrendous crimes, they really are horrible. Parents HAVE to be able to protect their children, and Sarahs Law allows parents to have the information to do that.&quot;<br /> <br /> ==Support for State Police==<br /> <br /> Of the many &quot;anti-pedophile&quot; projects Vorderman has taken part in, one of the most notable involves a collaboration with Thames Valley Police to produce a demonstrative video on &quot;internet safety&quot; in schools ([http://www.thamesvalley.police.uk/chatsafe/video.htm Thames Valley Police Website]).<br /> <br /> ==Lack of understanding==<br /> <br /> Vorderman is one of the many public campaigners who effectively target [[Pedophilia|anyone with a sexual preference for children]] because of beliefs they hold about &quot;[[child sexual abuse]]&quot; - a necessarily distinct topic. Thus, any attempt to bring Vorderman to account for the ideas she promotes should be targeted at these flawed beliefs.<br /> <br /> [[Category:Official Encyclopedia]][[Category:Child Advocacy]][[Category:Child Pornography]][[Category:Cyber Activism]][[Category:Hysteria]][[Category:TV &amp; Media]][[Category:People]][[Category:People: British]][[Category:People: Ranting AntiPeds]][[Category:People: Unsympathetic Activists]][[Category:People: Media]]</div>

StephenJames http://newgon77idcem62vqlfge3jkidjenvf6afhxwr2napk4kpp2labjbdid.onion/wiki/index.php?title=Oscar_Wilde&diff=5537 2009-08-18T18:21:19Z

<p>StephenJames: </p> <hr /> <div>'''Oscar Wilde''' (1854 - 1900) was a [[:Category:People: British|British]] [[:Category:People: Popular Authors|writer]]. He is famous for titles like ''The Picture of Dorian Gray'' as well as his affection for [[boy]]s, which landed him in prison in 1895. Specifically, he was convicted of charges of sodomy that were brought in response to a lawsuit he filed against the Marquis of Queensbury. He sued the marquis for libel in connection with a note that the marquis wrote accusing Wilde of &quot;posing as a sodomite.&quot; Wilde and the marquis' son, [[Lord Alfred Douglas]], then in his early 20s, were lovers. Wilde was convicted on charges related to Douglas, though the most sensational portions of the trial related to testimony that he consorted with older adolescents and young men of the working class. Because gentlemen did not, by the standards of the day, socialize with working people, the Crown led the jury to assume that the contacts Wilde had with these young men had to be sexual in nature.<br /> <br /> Wilde penned what some have described as his most poignant poem, &quot;The Ballad of Reading Gaol,&quot; while incarcerated at heavy labor on the sodomy conviction. After his release, Wilde and Douglas spent time together in Greece and Paris. Wilde had become nearly destitute and their relationship became very troubled, leading to periods of separation and reconciliation. Wilde died alone in a Paris boarding house three years after his release from Reading Gaol.<br /> <br /> ==Biography==<br /> <br /> * Born 16 October 1854 in Dublin<br /> * 1884 Marriage with Constance Lloyd, with whom he had two sons, Cyril (*1885) and Vyvyan (*1886).<br /> * 25 May 1895, sentenced to prison on a charge of sodomy<br /> * 1897 released from prison due to his illness<br /> * Died 30 November 1900 in Paris <br /> <br /> ==Famous works==<br /> <br /> * The Portrait of Mr. W. H. 1889<br /> * The Picture of Dorian Gray 1891<br /> * The Importance of Being Earnest 1895 <br /> <br /> ==External links==<br /> <br /> * [http://www.oscarwildecollection.com The Oscar Wilde Collection]<br /> * [http://www.ucc.ie/celt/et19wilde.html Collected works]<br /> <br /> ==See also==<br /> <br /> [[Lord Alfred Douglas]]<br /> <br /> [[Category:Official Encyclopedia]]<br /> [[Category:People]][[Category:People: British]][[Category:People: Artists and Poets]][[Category:People: Popular Authors]][[Category:People: Historical minor-attracted figures]][[Category:History &amp; Events]][[Category:History &amp; Events: 19th C]][[Category:History &amp; Events: British]][[Category:History &amp; Events: Personal Scandals]][[Category:History &amp; Events: Real Crime]][[Category:Gay]]</div>

StephenJames http://newgon77idcem62vqlfge3jkidjenvf6afhxwr2napk4kpp2labjbdid.onion/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:Lord_Alfred_Douglas&diff=5511 2009-08-13T15:11:01Z

<p>StephenJames: </p> <hr /> <div>==Need for more relevance==<br /> <br /> There doesn't seem to be any reference to intergenerational sex or child/adolescent sexuality in this article. I believe that both Wilde and Douglas were involved with older teens at least. Maybe something about this could be included in the article by someone who knows about it.<br /> <br /> : Yes, that's better!</div>

StephenJames http://newgon77idcem62vqlfge3jkidjenvf6afhxwr2napk4kpp2labjbdid.onion/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:Lord_Alfred_Douglas&diff=5508 2009-08-13T08:35:37Z

<p>StephenJames: Suggestion for increasing relevance of article</p> <hr /> <div>==Need for more relevance==<br /> <br /> There doesn't seem to be any reference to intergenerational sex or child/adolescent sexuality in this article. I believe that both Wilde and Douglas were involved with older teens at least. Maybe something about this could be included in the article by someone who knows about it.</div>

StephenJames